2024 Presidential Election Thread

[Uncle Ted]

Why is it the Dems always have to cheat when it comes to debates?

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[beefytee]

Interesting.

All the damning evidence is about to come out!

Haven't heard that before from Trump people.

[Jeff Lebowski]

That definitely is not my argument, and a case like that the morality certainly moves towards the pro-life side.

I will play this game if you tell me what gestational age you are comfortable with mothers getting abortions for any reason whatsoever.

I am in the extremely limited camp. Rape/incest/life of the mother or child.

So here's a rare situation where the possibility of a very late term abortion should be considered: a mentally disabled woman who cannot reasonably care for a child.

Her inability to care for a child is not a valid reason to kill the child. Give her support during the pregnancy and delivery and put the child up for adoption. This is not difficult.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Trump chickens out an all future debates. Haha. Coward.

He claims that he doesn't need to do another debate because he "won" the most recent debate. Which is laughable because after the Biden debate he was ready and anxious to do more. I wonder if his MAGA base will be dumb enough to buy that argument. Probably.

[Northwestcoug]

I am in the extremely limited camp. Rape/incest/life of the mother or child.



Her inability to care for a child is not a valid reason to kill the child. Give her support during the pregnancy and delivery and put the child up for adoption. This is not difficult.

Fair enough. I respect your position.

You don't have to answer this, but what if the pregnancy was caused by rape, and due to whatever circumstances the woman came to medical attention in the third trimester? Would that be a valid reason?

Some might say this would be an exceptionally rare ocurrence, but I would argue that late-term abortions are exceptionally rare, and scenarios like this are why they at least need to be considered.

[Northwestcoug]

Has Tedbot met his match?

DebunkBot, an A.I. chatbot designed by researchers to “very effectively persuade” users to stop believing unfounded conspiracy theories, made significant and long-lasting progress at changing people’s convictions, according to a study published on Thursday in the journal Science.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/12/h...mid=tw-nytimes

[Jeff Lebowski]

Fair enough. I respect your position.

You don't have to answer this, but what if the pregnancy was caused by rape, and due to whatever circumstances the woman came to medical attention in the third trimester? Would that be a valid reason?

Some might say this would be an exceptionally rare ocurrence, but I would argue that late-term abortions are exceptionally rare, and scenarios like this are why they at least need to be considered.

No, I wouldn't consider that to be a valid exception. A healthy late-term baby that is viable outside the womb deserves the same protection as any other human being.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Has Tedbot met his match?



https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/12/h...mid=tw-nytimes

Haha. This is crazy. Conspiracy theorists cannot be persuaded by evidence.

Would be fun to play with though.

[MartyFunkhouser]

There isn’t much difference between a nine month old fetus and a newly born baby. The difference is one has been born and the umbilical cord cut. Late term abortions for convenience or reason other than the health of the mother or barbaric.

Agreed with one minor exception to that.

I think it also isn't barbaric in the context of severe fetal abnormalities where the baby is extremely unlikely to survive and any life the baby is going to have is going to be in extreme pain. I wouldn't blame a parent for being confronted with that scenario and choosing that the more humane thing to do would be to have an abortion.

I've said it before here the debate over abortion drives me insane. The extremes have taken control and prevented there from being a reasonable and practical solution.

[falafel]

Trump just said in his presser that he isn't going to watch David Muir anymore (no mention of Linsey Davis - I'm guessing he didn't realize she was there, being both (1) black and (2) a woman).

"And his hair's not as good as it used to be." - actual DJT quote. Terrible moderator. Nevermind that Trump's hair looked as deflated as we've ever seen it.

Ted, sell your ABC stock.

*Bwhahahaha, now he's urging his viewers to agree that "he and JD aren't weird, Kamala is weird, and her VP pick is really weird!"

Its really hilarious how much lasting power the "weird" label has. Trump can't stand the idea that people might consider him anything other than the Second Coming of our Lord and Savior.

[MartyFunkhouser]

I think morality is part of where the abortion debate gets bogged down. I guess I'm ultimately not interested in debating whether or not it is a moral choice or not. It is a balancing of interests between the woman carrying the fetus and the unborn. Whose rights do we value more? If you say that a woman cannot abort a fetus for economic reasons, you believe the right of the unborn outweighs the right of the woman. I'm okay with someone making that argument. I disagree with it in the early stages of the pregnancy and don't disagree in later stages of the pregnancy.

Yes, we are going to be drawing arbitrary lines here. What is so different with 21 weeks than 20 weeks allowing a woman to have an abortion for economic purposes, well not really much is different. However, we need to draw a line, because the up to 9 months for any reason is insanity. I think restricting it in the first 16 weeks is insanity, because I think a woman's rights at that point absolutely outweigh the unborn. I think the 17-21 weeks is the gray area we can work in and find a compromise.

We also have to consider the practical application of any laws. If you give an exception for the likes of rape and incest in the early term of the pregnancy, you are either going to write the law so restrictive that it isn't a real exception or you are going to actually allow the exception to swallow everything up such that you are practically just allowing abortion for any reason in the early term. Also, if a woman was raped do we really want her to have to jump through hoops to get an abortion?

It is why we settle on something from 16-21 weeks for abortion for any reason. We restrict it after that cut off for health and safety of the mother or serious fetal defects/abnormalities.

But at the end of the day, Democrats are never going to fix this because they need it to get votes. It is just like how Republicans handle immigration. It is needed for their votes. Yeah, I'm cynical.

[myboynoah]

Trump chickens out an all future debates. Haha. Coward.

He claims that he doesn't need to do another debate because he "won" the most recent debate. Which is laughable because after the Biden debate he was ready and anxious to do more. I wonder if his MAGA base will be dumb enough to buy that argument. Probably.

lol

BURN!

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[Jeff Lebowski]

I think morality is part of where the abortion debate gets bogged down. I guess I'm ultimately not interested in debating whether or not it is a moral choice or not.

This is puzzling. It is a complex issue, but it fundamentally involves moral reasoning. Your second question (competing rights) rests on a moral foundation that there is some degree of value in the life of an unborn child or in the interests of the mother. Without that, what is the point of the question?

[Uncle Ted]

Trump chickens out an all future debates. Haha. Coward.

He claims that he doesn't need to do another debate because he "won" the most recent debate. Which is laughable because after the Biden debate he was ready and anxious to do more. I wonder if his MAGA base will be dumb enough to buy that argument. Probably.

Trump may not need another debate... Reports are coming out that the debate was rigged by ABC and Harris:

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The undecided voters are swinging toward Trump:

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Trump has even pulled ahead in places like Michigan:

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Harris is now begging for another chance (to cheat);

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And "They're eating the cat" remix is going wild on tictok:

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[myboynoah]

Trump just said in his presser that he isn't going to watch David Muir anymore (no mention of Linsey Davis - I'm guessing he didn't realize she was there, being both (1) black and (2) a woman).

"And his hair's not as good as it used to be." - actual DJT quote. Terrible moderator. Nevermind that Trump's hair looked as deflated as we've ever seen it.

Ted, sell your ABC stock.

*Bwhahahaha, now he's urging his viewers to agree that "he and JD aren't weird, Kamala is weird, and her VP pick is really weird!"

Its really hilarious how much lasting power the "weird" label has. Trump can't stand the idea that people might consider him anything other than the Second Coming of our Lord and Savior.