Biden/Harris: A Presidency for All Americans

[fusnik]

Honestly I think the ‘this is a disaster’ crowd are being highly influenced by the perpetual war machine that uses the modern media as it’s mouthpiece.

90k people out in 2 weeks. Was it clunky? Could it have been marginally better? Probs. Significantly better? Doubtful.

Again I’ve not read or listened to anything that provides a significantly ‘better’ outcome considering the position the administration was in coupled with the desires of the American electorate.

And do we really give a shit what Tony Blair says? Lol.

[Uncle Ted]

I think I read a NYT article in May that the intelligence was predicting the Taliban would take over in weeks not months. I don’t think this is surprising to anyone, except the tribalists and the media. There was a deadline, he exceeded the deadline but this wasn’t going to last in perpetuity, it needed to end.

Why didn't this intelligence tell this sh*t to the POTUS?!?...

'Not even close': Biden said no one predicted Taliban would take over so quickly

The intelligence community did not predict Afghanistan would fall as quickly as it did, President Joe Biden told ABC News in an interview in which he also rejected reporting that some military leaders asked him to keep some troops there.

"The intelligence community did not say, back in June or July, that in fact this was going to collapse like it did," Biden told George Stephanopoulos in an interview that aired on Good Morning America Thursday.

Biden was told the Taliban would take over, just not at the lightning speed with which it happened.

"Not even close," Biden said.
[...]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/08/19/biden-said-no-one-predicted-afghanistans-quick-fall-not-even-close/8191588002/

Or did Biden act without any intelligence?

I am assuming the latter.

[Uncle Ted]

Who in the hell takes a high school trip to Afghanistan, a war zone?!?

Students from San Diego County school district stranded in Afghanistan

At least 24 students from the Cajon Valley Union School District in El Cajon and 16 parents are stranded in Afghanistan after taking a summer trip abroad.

They are among thousands of individuals waiting to leave the country amid political unrest caused by the U.S. military pullout after 20 years of occupation. The U.S. government is accelerating efforts to rescue Americans as the Taliban takes over the country.
[...]

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...in-afghanistan

Oh, Californians... I guess I should have known.

Edit: Update on the San Diego high school students...

‘Nobody is doing well’: San Diego-area students stranded in Afghanistan
[...]
The El Cajon families include 16 parents and two-dozen children, some of whom have witnessed shootings and other violence in and around the Kabul airport in recent days, said Fraidoon Hassemi, an Afghan who works as community liaison for the El Cajon Valley Union School District. The children range from preschoolers to high school students.

“Nobody is doing well,” said Hassemi, who has spoken to the families. “They are trying their best to get to the airport, get to their gates and get on an airplane. The situation is very horrible.”

The families were asking for the U.S. government’s help after being unable to board their flights back to California. They have been blocked by the throngs of Afghans at the Kabul airport desperately trying to escape following their government’s rapid collapse and the withdrawal of U.S. troops.
[...]

https://ktla.com/news/california/24-...n-afghanistan/

Of course, it seems things are just getting worse at the airport:

U.S. citizens advised to stay away from Kabul airport with a new security alert in place

The U.S. Embassy in Afghanistan posted a security alert on Wednesday for U.S. citizens.

The alert advises Americans to avoid traveling to the Kabul airport unless they receive “individual instructions from a U.S. government representative to do so.” According to Secretary of State Antony Blinken, as many as 1,500 Americans are in Afghanistan and could still be waiting for evacuation. President Joe Biden set a deadline of Aug. 31 to evacuate all U.S. citizens and the Taliban issued their own deadline for the same day.
[...]

https://www.kktv.com/2021/08/26/us-citizens-advised-stay-away-kabul-airport-with-new-security-alert-place/

And Biden is still letting the Taliban dictate the terms of the withdrawal from Afghanistan and screwing over our allies:

Biden pours salt into wounds of relations with Europe at G7 meeting

In the end it took only seven minutes for Joe Biden to pour salt into the wounds of his fractured relationship with European leaders, telling them firmly on a video call that he would not extend the 31 August deadline for US troops to stay in Kabul, as he had been asked by the French, Italians and most of all the British. The rebuff follows Biden’s earlier decision in July to insist on the August deadline previously set in 2020 by Donald Trump for the withdrawal, a decision the US president relayed to his EU colleagues as a fait accompli.

For Europe the episode has been a rude awakening, and a moment of sober reassessment. Only on 25 March Charles Michel had afforded Biden the chance to address a meeting of the European Council, the first foreign leader given the honour since Barack Obama 11 years earlier. Biden after all had said his foreign policy would only be as strong as his system of alliances, the true shield of the republic, and Europe would be at the heart of that system.
[...]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/24/biden-pours-salt-into-wounds-relations-europe-g7-meeting

[Uncle Ted]

People don't feel good about ("Vice") President Harris... Going back about 30 years she is by far the worst.

Kamala Harris has 'unprecedented' negative rating

America just doesn’t have a good “feeling” about Vice President Kamala Harris.

Going back 28 years in NBC polling, no other new vice president has been welcomed so coldly by Americans as the Democrat and first woman in the job.

In the latest survey, pollster Bill McInturff pointed out her low positive rating, at 37%, and tweeted this morning, “VP Harris has lowest feeling thermometer of any first year VP going back to Gore in 1993 with an unprecedented ‘very negative’ rating on @NBCNews survey tracking.”

The survey put her positive rating below former Vice Presidents Al Gore, Dick Cheney, Joe Biden, and Mike Pence.

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She also has the largest “total positive” versus “total negative” gap at negative 9 points. For comparison, Cheney’s gap was a positive 23 points.

And McInturff also highlighted the vice president’s “very positive” versus “very negative” rating to rank her thermometer reading and found that gap at a whopping negative 17 points, nearly tripling the next worst, Biden’s negative 6 points in his first year of the Obama administration.

Since taking office, Harris has struggled to emerge. She has been given the job of fixing illegal immigration and pushing through election reform, but both are stalled. She is currently on a trip through Asia.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/kamala-harris-has-unprecedented-negative-rating

Hopefully Biden doesn't get impeached before the next presidential election. President Harris could be worse.

[Uncle Ted]

LOL... So apparently the White House released a photo of Joe on a conference call that was taken before March 28th:

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Joe must had been napping and they didn't want to wake him up for the photo op so they just used some old picture of him "working".

The Harris/Bidden Administration is just a huge propaganda machine... Here is another one:

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The planes are not even ours.

[Moliere]

People don't feel good about ("Vice") President Harris... Going back about 30 years she is by far the worst.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/kamala-harris-has-unprecedented-negative-rating

Hopefully Biden doesn't get impeached before the next presidential election. President Harris could be worse.

It’s no secret she’s a horrible candidate and doesn’t poll well. I was surprised Biden picked her given how poorly she did in the debates.

[Moliere]

A terrorist explosion has now just hit the crowd trying to get to the Kabul airport. Three Americans are injured. Glad to know that this whole evacuation is going as well as possible

[Moliere]

Second blast. 4 American troops are dead and at least 13 afghans. Those are the first troops to die in Afghanistan since Feb 2020. Horrifying.

[SCcoug]

Reports of 10 dead marines, deadliest day in 6 years and that number may still climb.

[frank ryan]

Honestly I think the ‘this is a disaster’ crowd are being highly influenced by the perpetual war machine that uses the modern media as it’s mouthpiece.

90k people out in 2 weeks. Was it clunky? Could it have been marginally better? Probs. Significantly better? Doubtful.

Again I’ve not read or listened to anything that provides a significantly ‘better’ outcome considering the position the administration was in coupled with the desires of the American electorate.

And do we really give a shit what Tony Blair says? Lol.

I’m torn. You and I have both posted some similar thoughts. The options were not withdraw or withdraw better. The option were stay and commit more resources of withdraw.

Those that cheered Trump’s original plans, like Ted need to STFU. This is what happens in a power vacuum.

Part of me sees the value of maintaining a permanent presence, even considering the cost.

[fusnik]

A terrorist explosion has now just hit the crowd trying to get to the Kabul airport. Three Americans are injured. Glad to know that this whole evacuation is going as well as possible

Absolute cluster. Again I think most of us agree with that to a point but what was the alternative?

US intelligence was telling Biden to increase troops and leave 4500 there permanently. You had the Afghani President asking us not to announce departure as he had hoped his troops could maintain control of the country. American electorate wanted us out. 20 years of bipartisan awfulness and 1.5 years of Trump promising us that the Taliban would kill terrorists lol.

Awful with our troops dead. Hits really close to home because I have a brother who is currently deployed overseas, but let’s pump the fake outrage breaks you probably had 50 people die of COVID 10 miles from your house over the last 24 hours.

[Eddie]

I’m torn. You and I have both posted some similar thoughts. The options were not withdraw or withdraw better. The option were stay and commit more resources of withdraw.

Those that cheered Trump’s original plans, like Ted need to STFU. This is what happens in a power vacuum.

Part of me sees the value of maintaining a permanent presence, even considering the cost.

I don't buy that - not for a second. There is a huge continuum between withdrawing horribly and withdrawing well - this isn't a black or white, yes or no, situation. If you honestly and truly don't believe this could've been done better - either you don't think very much of Biden and have extremely low expectations of what his administration is capable of or you're so blinded by partisanship that you can't recognize when "your guy" makes a mistake and allow for appropriate criticism.

Leaving was going to be messy. Some of the mess is Trump's fault for the original agreement with the Taliban - it should've included benchmarks for withdrawal and a requirement that the Taliban remain outside of Kabul until the US was ready to be gone. So Trump laid the groundwork for Biden's failure - But Biden jumped in with both feet, insisting he and his team had planned for every contingency. He is now the president and takes the majority of the responsibility.

[Eddie]

Absolute cluster. Again I think most of us agree with that to a point but what was the alternative?

US intelligence was telling Biden to increase troops and leave 4500 there permanently. You had the Afghani President asking us not to announce departure as he had hoped his troops could maintain control of the country. American electorate wanted us out. 20 years of bipartisan awfulness and 1.5 years of Trump promising us that the Taliban would kill terrorists lol.

Awful with our troops dead. Hits really close to home because I have a brother who is currently deployed overseas, but let’s pump the fake outrage breaks you probably had 50 people die of COVID 10 miles from your house over the last 24 hours.

The US took a huge role in getting other countries to join them in Afghanistan, doesn't seem like it would be a huge issue to talk to them once the US decided they were withdrawing. I understand what you're saying about not wanting to announce a departure - but the US certainly could've done more to provide information to US citizens and supporters in the area and better prepare for the withdrawal.

Trump is an idiot - thinking the Taliban would kill terrorists is just the latest piece of evidence. That's been known for a while. This isn't about Trump or what he did prior to now. This is about Biden and his actions. There is a HUGE amount of space between permanently keeping 4,500 troops in Afghanistan and what we're seeing now. Biden can carry the blame for not requiring a better plan to get troops and US citizens out. Honestly, it doesn't feel like there was much plan at all.

[fusnik]

The US took a huge role in getting other countries to join them in Afghanistan, doesn't seem like it would be a huge issue to talk to them once the US decided they were withdrawing. I understand what you're saying about not wanting to announce a departure - but the US certainly could've done more to provide information to US citizens and supporters in the area and better prepare for the withdrawal.

Trump is an idiot - thinking the Taliban would kill terrorists is just the latest piece of evidence. That's been known for a while. This isn't about Trump or what he did prior to now. This is about Biden and his actions. There is a HUGE amount of space between permanently keeping 4,500 troops in Afghanistan and what we're seeing now. Biden can carry the blame for not requiring a better plan to get troops and US citizens out. Honestly, it doesn't feel like there was much plan at all.

So talk more to some people that’d make this better?

I think when they made the decision to leave the only thing to make this better ironically would have been some Trump style bloviation. Biden should have come out and said we are leaving and if one American is killed or one Afghani ally is blocked from leaving we will kill thousands of soldiers as we depart this country and we won’t forget.

This entire thing just seems like fake outrage to hurt Biden politically. Nobody here a year and half ago were freaking out when Trump handed over an entire country to a terrorist organization.

[Eddie]

So talk more to some people that’d make this better?

I think when they made the decision to leave the only thing to make this better ironically would have been some Trump style bloviation. Biden should have come out and said we are leaving and if one American is killed or one Afghani ally is blocked from leaving we will kill thousands of soldiers as we depart this country and we won’t forget.

This entire thing just seems like fake outrage to hurt Biden politically. Nobody here a year and half ago were freaking out when Trump handed over an entire country to a terrorist organization.

I know you're smarter than this. I'm sure you could think of some things that could've been done to help the US be better prepared. It isn't like they decided 3 weeks ago that they were leaving and suddenly found themselves in this mess of not enough air transport, no idea what to do with refugees, deciding for some reason not to provide or assist in providing safe travel to the airport, etc..

Biden has known since he took office that they'd be leaving, no? If he knew back in January that they wanted out and had a deadline to get out - seems like there are some things they could've done to plan and prepare. I'm not saying they did no planning - but as I told Frank - if you can't imagine Biden and his administration doing this any better than they have, either you don't think very highly of them or your partisan blinders are so narrow that your opinion doesn't carry any weight.