Biden/Harris: A Presidency for All Americans

[Northwestcoug]

If we’re being fair, investigations should be based on what people actually did wrong — not which party they’re in. If Biden had done all that stuff — lying about the election, pressuring officials, stirring up trouble — then sure, he should be investigated too. No one should get a free pass just because of their politics.

The problem is, a lot of people feel like the rules aren’t applied evenly. When violence or election denial came from the left — like after 2016 or during the 2017 protests — it didn’t seem to get the same attention or outrage. So it starts to look like justice depends on who’s in charge.

What happened on January 6 was obviously serious and needed to be investigated. But the bigger point is that we need one standard for everyone. If you try to mess with an election or encourage violence, it shouldn’t matter what party you belong to but the response should be the same.

Waiting for all the shit to fall for the inciting violence from Dems that has caused political assassinations attempts and deaths.

By all means, if you have the receipts where national democratic leaders are publicly inciting violence please share it. Because I want to see it and I'll condemn it. This seems like a good time to share the what kind of peacemaker Trump has been since the very beginning:

But if we're just talking about your and others' feels with national democratic leaders specifically encouraging or inciting violence, then there's no point to even try to compare. It's not that left-wing political violence doesn't exist, it's just that it's condemned by all but the fringes on the left. Not so with Trump and his goons. He has a paper trail, and honestly he's proud of it.

[dabrockster]

Replace Trump in 2020 with Biden. Suppose Biden has lied endlessly about the outcome of the election, was caught pressuring a democratic governor to 'find votes', letting his lawyers attack innocent pollsters, publicly urging VP Harris to not certify the results, colluding with democratic senators who know better (should?) like Lee/Cruz/Hawley who are publicly advocating for ways to overturn the election based on lies, all leading up to Biden riling up a dangerous mob to attack Congress.

Are you telling me you wouldn't want a shit ton of subpoenas targeting Democrats? Would you want them to throw some the GOP way as a show of fairness?

Come. On. It is so depressing that it's only been 5 years and the shock level has worn off and the nation has forgotten just how bad it was on January 6th. You remember that right? It was about the furthest from 'both sides' political scandal/emergency we could have. Of course an investigation would overwhelmingly target republicans. They were the ones involved!

If we’re being fair, investigations should be based on what people actually did wrong — not which party they’re in. If Biden had done all that stuff — lying about the election, pressuring officials, stirring up trouble — then sure, he should be investigated too. No one should get a free pass just because of their politics.

The problem is, a lot of people feel like the rules aren’t applied evenly. When violence or election denial came from the left — like after 2016 or during the 2017 protests — it didn’t seem to get the same attention or outrage. So it starts to look like justice depends on who’s in charge.

What happened on January 6 was obviously serious and needed to be investigated. But the bigger point is that we need one standard for everyone. If you try to mess with an election or encourage violence, it shouldn’t matter what party you belong to but the response should be the same.

Waiting for all the shit to fall for the inciting violence from Dems that has caused political assassinations attempts and deaths.

[Maximus]

Despite a lot of speculation, there’s no evidence that any Republican U.S. senators were involved in planning or taking part in the January 6th attack on the Capitol.

Investigations by Congress and law enforcement found no senators tied to organizing or encouraging violence. Some, like Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz, objected to the election results through legal procedures, but that’s very different from participating in the riot itself.

Seriously. Please provide proof of your statement. Banks, foxnews, individual citizens and now senators. Expanding to say senators were trying to over throw the govt. The next conspirator movement sine 9/11’ers will be this.

a lot more illegal stuff happened besides the jan 6 break in

hawley giving a fist pump to the protestors was definitely not agreeing with them

[frank ryan]

Replace Trump in 2020 with Biden. Suppose Biden has lied endlessly about the outcome of the election, was caught pressuring a democratic governor to 'find votes', letting his lawyers attack innocent pollsters, publicly urging VP Harris to not certify the results, colluding with democratic senators who know better (should?) like Lee/Cruz/Hawley who are publicly advocating for ways to overturn the election based on lies, all leading up to Biden riling up a dangerous mob to attack Congress.

Are you telling me you wouldn't want a shit ton of subpoenas targeting Democrats? Would you want them to throw some the GOP way as a show of fairness?

Come. On. It is so depressing that it's only been 5 years and the shock level has worn off and the nation has forgotten just how bad it was on January 6th. You remember that right? It was about the furthest from 'both sides' political scandal/emergency we could have. Of course an investigation would overwhelmingly target republicans. They were the ones involved!

There is talk about going after committee members who investigated J6.

[Northwestcoug]

Despite a lot of speculation, there’s no evidence that any Republican U.S. senators were involved in planning or taking part in the January 6th attack on the Capitol.

Investigations by Congress and law enforcement found no senators tied to organizing or encouraging violence. Some, like Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz, objected to the election results through legal procedures, but that’s very different from participating in the riot itself.

Seriously. Please provide proof of your statement. Banks, foxnews, individual citizens and now senators. Expanding to say senators were trying to over throw the govt. The next conspirator movement sine 9/11’ers will be this.

Replace Trump in 2020 with Biden. Suppose Biden has lied endlessly about the outcome of the election, was caught pressuring a democratic governor to 'find votes', letting his lawyers attack innocent pollsters, publicly urging VP Harris to not certify the results, colluding with democratic senators who know better (should?) like Lee/Cruz/Hawley who are publicly advocating for ways to overturn the election based on lies, all leading up to Biden riling up a dangerous mob to attack Congress.

Are you telling me you wouldn't want a shit ton of subpoenas targeting Democrats? Would you want them to throw some the GOP way as a show of fairness?

Come. On. It is so depressing that it's only been 5 years and the shock level has worn off and the nation has forgotten just how bad it was on January 6th. You remember that right? It was about the furthest from 'both sides' political scandal/emergency we could have. Of course an investigation would overwhelmingly target republicans. They were the ones involved!

[frank ryan]

The J6 organizers reported plenty of briefings with congress people. From a

And Gosar, who has been one of the most prominent defenders of the Jan. 6 rioters, allegedly took things a step further. Both sources say he dangled the possibility of a “blanket pardon” in an unrelated ongoing investigation to encourage them to plan the protests.

“Our impression was that it was a done deal,” the organizer says, “that he’d spoken to the president about it in the Oval … in a meeting about pardons and that our names came up. They were working on submitting the paperwork and getting members of the House Freedom Caucus to sign on as a show of support.”

The organizer claims the pair received “several assurances” about the “blanket pardon” from Gosar....


In another indication members of Congress may have been involved in planning the protests against the election, Ali Alexander, who helped organize the “Wild Protest,” declared in a since-deleted livestream broadcast that Gosar, Brooks, and Biggs helped him formulate the strategy for that event. ...


“I was the person who came up with the Jan. 6 idea with Congressman Gosar, Congressman Mo Brooks, and Congressman Andy Biggs,” Alexander said at the time. “We four schemed up on putting maximum pressure on Congress while they were voting so that — who we couldn’t lobby — we could change the hearts and the minds of Republicans who were in that body hearing our loud roar from outside.”

Alexander led Stop the Steal, which was one of the main groups promoting efforts to dispute Trump’s loss. In December, he organized a Stop the Steal event in Phoenix, where Gosar was one the main speakers. At that demonstration, Alexander referred to Gosar as “my captain” and declared “one of the other heroes has been Congressman Andy Biggs.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/exclusive-jan-6-organizers-met-congress-white-house-1245289/

[dabrockster]

Lol come on bro. Now pretending jan 6 and overturning the election. Was no biggie? Senators were directly involved in illegally betraying our nation. Of course they deserved to be subpoenaed


A few dozen combined reps and senators should be in jail if we werent a banana republic

Despite a lot of speculation, there’s no evidence that any Republican U.S. senators were involved in planning or taking part in the January 6th attack on the Capitol.

Investigations by Congress and law enforcement found no senators tied to organizing or encouraging violence. Some, like Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz, objected to the election results through legal procedures, but that’s very different from participating in the riot itself.

Seriously. Please provide proof of your statement. Banks, foxnews, individual citizens and now senators. Expanding to say senators were trying to over throw the govt. The next conspirator movement sine 9/11’ers will be this.

[Maximus]

I am equally baffled to see over 400-conservatives subpoenaed in a broad net push and completely one-sided from the opposing party. This seems much more shady. How many subpoenas are the normal? Including U.S. senators and congressman’s part of those investigations. I mean. How is this not seen as over reach on MaCarthyism levels.

Lol come on bro. Now pretending jan 6 and overturning the election. Was no biggie? Senators were directly involved in illegally betraying our nation. Of course they deserved to be subpoenaed


A few dozen combined reps and senators should be in jail if we werent a banana republic

[chrisrenrut]

I am equally baffled to see over 400-conservatives subpoenaed in a broad net push and completely one-sided from the opposing party. This seems much more shady. How many subpoenas are the normal? Including U.S. senators and congressman’s part of those investigations. I mean. How is this not seen as over reach on MaCarthyism levels.

What about this investigation was normal? They were investigating insurrection and the attempt to thwart an election from the highest ranking officials in the US. And you don’t have to think very hard about why this investigation would focus on one party specifically.

[dabrockster]

I’d have to look into this a bit more. But on the surface, I’m a little baffled why a special investigator doing investigation things is a surprise.

I am equally baffled to see over 400-conservatives subpoenaed in a broad net push and completely one-sided from the opposing party. This seems much more shady. How many subpoenas are the normal? Including U.S. senators and congressman’s part of those investigations. I mean. How is this not seen as over reach on MaCarthyism levels.

[chrisrenrut]

Scope has meaning and usually where there is smoke there is fire. You mention Wikipedia to try and debunk what the IRS did. Let’s look at another rogue investigation that targeted conservatives and a direct Presidential candidate to the opposing party. I mean. That is some serious shit.. And the subpoenas were based on some vague evidence including news articles?? All to cast a vast net to find information to be damaging to your opposing party (And people act like Trump was the first one to target Dems.).

“
Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) today made public 197 subpoenas former Special Counsel Jack Smith and his team issued as part of the indiscriminate election case against President Trump. Smith’s case began at the Biden Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) under the codename “Arctic Frost.”

The subpoenas, which were provided to Grassley through legally protected whistleblower disclosures, were sent to 34 individuals and 163 businesses. These 197 subpoenas requested testimony, communications and records related to at least 430 named Republican individuals and entities. Some of the records Smith subpoenaed from banks, individuals and businesses included:

• Communications with media companies such as CBS, Fox News, Fox Business, Newsmax, Sinclair and others.
• Communications with “any member, employee or agent of the Legislative Branch of the U.S. Government.”
• Communications with White House advisors, such as Stephen Miller, Dan Scavino, Jared Kushner, Lara Trump and others.
• Statistical data and analysis relating to donors and fundraising efforts.
• Broad financial data relating to conservative individuals and entities.

Grassley unveiled the subpoenas during a press conference alongside Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations Chairman Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) and members of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Grassley at today’s press conference said, in part:

“Arctic Frost was the vehicle by which partisan FBI agents and DOJ prosecutors could improperly investigate the entire Republican political apparatus. Contrary to what [Jack] Smith has said publicly, this was clearly a fishing expedition.”

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/press/rep/releases/new-jack-smith-subpoenaed-records-for-over-400-republican-targets-as-part-of-arctic-frost?utm_source=chatgpt.com

I’d have to look into this a bit more. But on the surface, I’m a little baffled why a special investigator doing investigation things is a surprise.

[dabrockster]

Do “scope” or “scale” have any meaning to you? Trying to both-sides-of-the-same-coin this compared to what Trump is doing to prosecute or withhold funds from his political enemies or even just blue states is the only argument here that “rings hallow”.

And hasn’t the IRS targeting conservative non-profits been debunked? During Trumps first term, the Treasury Dept Inspector General found the IRS used both conservative and liberal key words to choose targets for further scrutiny. That’s from Wikipedia, so I’m open to info from other reputable and non-partisan sources.

Scope has meaning and usually where there is smoke there is fire. You mention Wikipedia to try and debunk what the IRS did. Let’s look at another rogue investigation that targeted conservatives and a direct Presidential candidate to the opposing party. I mean. That is some serious shit.. And the subpoenas were based on some vague evidence including news articles?? All to cast a vast net to find information to be damaging to your opposing party (And people act like Trump was the first one to target Dems.).

“
Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) today made public 197 subpoenas former Special Counsel Jack Smith and his team issued as part of the indiscriminate election case against President Trump. Smith’s case began at the Biden Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) under the codename “Arctic Frost.”

The subpoenas, which were provided to Grassley through legally protected whistleblower disclosures, were sent to 34 individuals and 163 businesses. These 197 subpoenas requested testimony, communications and records related to at least 430 named Republican individuals and entities. Some of the records Smith subpoenaed from banks, individuals and businesses included:

• Communications with media companies such as CBS, Fox News, Fox Business, Newsmax, Sinclair and others.
• Communications with “any member, employee or agent of the Legislative Branch of the U.S. Government.”
• Communications with White House advisors, such as Stephen Miller, Dan Scavino, Jared Kushner, Lara Trump and others.
• Statistical data and analysis relating to donors and fundraising efforts.
• Broad financial data relating to conservative individuals and entities.

Grassley unveiled the subpoenas during a press conference alongside Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations Chairman Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) and members of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Grassley at today’s press conference said, in part:

“Arctic Frost was the vehicle by which partisan FBI agents and DOJ prosecutors could improperly investigate the entire Republican political apparatus. Contrary to what [Jack] Smith has said publicly, this was clearly a fishing expedition.”

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/press/rep/releases/new-jack-smith-subpoenaed-records-for-over-400-republican-targets-as-part-of-arctic-frost?utm_source=chatgpt.com

[chrisrenrut]

Even if only 107 cases were flagged, the point isn’t the number — it’s the principle. When federal workers collect info that even looks political or invasive (like noting gun ownership), it undermines trust in disaster response. FEMA may not directly decide who gets aid, but the data they collect had no valid reason to be collected in the first place and could easily be used to determine who gets aids or js prioritized. And to think this is a one-time thing under Biden is laughable. The targeting by the IRS to conservative non-profits as well as universities (Grand Canyon and Liberty) only further erodes public trust. Much like what we see under Trump.

FEMA workers are public servants operating under federal authority, and their actions—however well-intentioned—must be above reproach to maintain public confidence, especially in politically divided regions.

It’s good that FEMA investigated and fired the person involved — that actually proves there was a real issue, not a made-up one. Accountability only happens when people question the system.

And concern over data collection on private property isn’t a “both sides” thing — it’s a civil liberties issue. Canceling the program might’ve been too far, but brushing off legitimate worries because they’re “statistically rare” misses why people care in the first place: they want transparency and fairness, not political filtering in disaster relief.

Do “scope” or “scale” have any meaning to you? Trying to both-sides-of-the-same-coin this compared to what Trump is doing to prosecute or withhold funds from his political enemies or even just blue states is the only argument here that “rings hallow”.

And hasn’t the IRS targeting conservative non-profits been debunked? During Trumps first term, the Treasury Dept Inspector General found the IRS used both conservative and liberal key words to choose targets for further scrutiny. That’s from Wikipedia, so I’m open to info from other reputable and non-partisan sources.

[dabrockster]

Not even remotely.

A whopping 107 total instances of "bad information being collected" by canvassers over a 4 year period out of thousands upon thousands upon thousands of interactions. Not "aid was denied (canvassers don't determine aid)," just "we didn't like they referenced gun ownership while documenting whether they felt safe to leave a flyer about resources available." This while FEMA workers endured armed threats in 2024. Meanwhile, the canvasser program was canceled completely by Cosplay Noem. So if you're concerned that aid was being denied by the big bad canvassers not providing information, worry not. No canvassers are leaving any information at all anymore. Oh and what happened with those 107 instances of information collected? In 20, contact was made or information left. 60 of them had "no solicitation" or no traspassing and 21 were damaged and unsafe to approach. Even if you assume that among those 81 non-contacts, FEMA workers were coding some to hide political animus, over 4 million households requested assistance in 2024 alone. This is not a systemic issue.

There was a low-level supervisor who said to avoid hostile homes in the aftermath of Hurricane Milton. The incident was referred to the Office of Professional Responsibility and the Office of Special Counsel. It was investigated, a report was developed and made available, and the person involved fired. Democrats condemned the incident. And the houses that were initially wrongfully skipped? Recanvassed. FEMA then did an inquiry to determine if they had a systemic problem of people being directed to avoid contacting particular houses. The FEMA administrator then answered questions about the incident and the report in front of Congress. None of these processes are in place for the plethora of crap going on under this administration. So forgive me if I think your Both Sidesing this is disingenuous.

Even if only 107 cases were flagged, the point isn’t the number — it’s the principle. When federal workers collect info that even looks political or invasive (like noting gun ownership), it undermines trust in disaster response. FEMA may not directly decide who gets aid, but the data they collect had no valid reason to be collected in the first place and could easily be used to determine who gets aids or js prioritized. And to think this is a one-time thing under Biden is laughable. The targeting by the IRS to conservative non-profits as well as universities (Grand Canyon and Liberty) only further erodes public trust. Much like what we see under Trump.

FEMA workers are public servants operating under federal authority, and their actions—however well-intentioned—must be above reproach to maintain public confidence, especially in politically divided regions.

It’s good that FEMA investigated and fired the person involved — that actually proves there was a real issue, not a made-up one. Accountability only happens when people question the system.

And concern over data collection on private property isn’t a “both sides” thing — it’s a civil liberties issue. Canceling the program might’ve been too far, but brushing off legitimate worries because they’re “statistically rare” misses why people care in the first place: they want transparency and fairness, not political filtering in disaster relief.

[falafel]

Follow the money? Like the $2B in criminal restitution that Trump has forgiven through pardons?

Well, money is the most important thing. No one should every be able to take away your money.