"Hold my root beer" - the Russell M. Nelson thread

[Katy Lied]

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[Eddie]

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I like the ones that are about opioid addiction and say "A Word of Wisdom" on them.

[Commando]

I was just thinking of some reforms I'd love to see Pres. Nelson enact in the Church, and not a lot came to mind (at least, none that are realistic), but one I'd love to see revised is how we treat people who are incarcerated/on probation/on parole.

I taught a guy on my mission who was really thoughtful about the church and eventually committed to being baptized. He was on probation for a unique Oregon law that prohibits shouting/arguing in front of children and therefore couldn't pass his baptism interview. He went to church for a few months after, but I think the lack of acceptance stung a little.

I can't help but think our policies on excommunicating felons, refusing baptism to those on probation, etc. is mostly a perception-driven policy. I'm no scriptorian, but I can't think of a single instance in the scriptures where blessings were withheld based on criminal history/record. If the gift of the Holy Ghost is real and if exercising priesthood has real impact on the lives of the holder and others, is there a group of people that need those gifts more than those who are paying their debt to society?

[swampfrog]

Maybe there's a thread already about missionary work, but since the leadership conference came under President Nelson's watch, I'll put it here.

It's been 30 years (this month) since I returned from my mission in Barcelona, Spain where I was exposed (in the second half of my mission) to some questionable proselyting principles. It's a little late, but I'm glad these are finally being called out as the unhealthy practices that they are. I hope they publish the full text of this talk.

Speaking to 164 new mission presidents and their companions gathered at the Provo Missionary Training Center for the conference, President Ballard said gospel invitations — especially invitations to be baptized — should be Spirit-led.

Some missionaries have felt pressure to invite people to be baptized during the first lesson or even the first contact. “These missionaries have felt that inviting people to be baptized the very first time they meet them demonstrated the missionaries’ faith and supports their thinking that inviting people to be baptized early is what is expected,” he said. “Other missionaries have felt that an invitation to be baptized early allowed them to promptly separate the wheat from the tares. In this case, some see the baptismal invitation as a sifting tool.”

Church leaders don’t know where these practices began, but “it was never our intention to invite people to be baptized before they had learned something about the gospel, felt the Holy Ghost, and had been properly prepared to accept a lifelong commitment to follow Jesus Christ,” said President Ballard. “Our retention rates will dramatically increase when people desire to be baptized because of the spiritual experiences they are having rather than feeling pressured into being baptized by our missionaries.”

Other problems this practice has created include:

1. First, some Latter-day Saints are hesitant to share the names of families and friends with missionaries because the members worry the missionaries will extend invitations for baptism before the person being introduced is prepared and ready to be baptized.
2. Second, missionaries sometimes feel like salespeople who have to achieve baptismal goals; therefore, the missionaries use high-pressure tactics to rush people into the baptismal font. Such a culture can ultimately hurt the faith of the missionaries who may return home feeling guilty for their actions in this regard.
3. Third, some people have stopped meeting with missionaries because a premature baptism invitation was given too early in their spiritual journey. They feel like missionaries are more interested in the baptism event than in what they are really experiencing spiritually.

President Ballard said the Book of Mormon clearly teaches that commandments or invitations should be given in context.
Missionaries should be taught to determine by the Spirit when an invitation to be baptized is appropriate.

[BigPiney]

Maybe there's a thread already about missionary work, but since the leadership conference came under President Nelson's watch, I'll put it here.

It's been 30 years (this month) since I returned from my mission in Barcelona, Spain where I was exposed (in the second half of my mission) to some questionable proselyting principles. It's a little late, but I'm glad these are finally being called out as the unhealthy practices that they are. I hope they publish the full text of this talk.

"Church leaders don’t know where these practices began"

I call BS on that. It would not take much effort to find the Area Authority that championed that practice I am guessing.

Glad they are addressing this though. Now get rid of the stupid rule where you can't feed the missionaries during the week.

[falafel]

"Church leaders don’t know where these practices began"

I call BS on that. It would not take much effort to find the Area Authority that championed that practice I am guessing.

Glad they are addressing this though. Now get rid of the stupid rule where you can't feed the missionaries during the week.

I specifically recall our Area President designing a door approach for us that included inviting to baptism. It was Elder Pinnock. That dude was a hard-ass. Elder Kikuchi, on the other hand, was a soft-touch.

[Commando]

"Church leaders don’t know where these practices began"

I call BS on that. It would not take much effort to find the Area Authority that championed that practice I am guessing.

Glad they are addressing this though. Now get rid of the stupid rule where you can't feed the missionaries during the week.

Somebody forgot to tell the mission president here about this rule. Our ward has a sign-up sheet to feed the missionaries every day of the month.

[BigPiney]

Somebody forgot to tell the mission president here about this rule. Our ward has a sign-up sheet to feed the missionaries every day of the month.

You are in the North America Southwest, it is still cool to do there. Not so in the North America West area.

[Donuthole]

Now get rid of the stupid rule where you can't feed the missionaries during the week.

Somebody forgot to tell the mission president here about this rule. Our ward has a sign-up sheet to feed the missionaries every day of the month.

Yeah, there definitely needs to be some balance. Let them eat dinner with the members, but limit them to 15 member dinners a month and don't let the missionaries stay for longer than 60 mins.

[swampfrog]

"Church leaders don’t know where these practices began"

I call BS on that. It would not take much effort to find the Area Authority that championed that practice I am guessing.

Glad they are addressing this though. Now get rid of the stupid rule where you can't feed the missionaries during the week.

I specifically recall our Area President designing a door approach for us that included inviting to baptism. It was Elder Pinnock. That dude was a hard-ass. Elder Kikuchi, on the other hand, was a soft-touch.

They know, at least with regard to specific times and areas of the globe. Mine was John R. Lasater, for whom I have less than Christlike feelings. I've had nearly zero desire to do missionary work of any kind since then.

[BigPiney]

Yeah, there definitely needs to be some balance. Let them eat dinner with the members, but limit them to 15 member dinners a month and don't let the missionaries stay for longer than 60 mins.

I like this idea. In the six months or so since this policy has been implemented I have had the missionaries in my home zero times. We used to try for once a month. We have a missionary that served 4 months in my ward and I have no idea what his name is. No way would I feel comfortable inviting them to meet with any friends if I had some that were interested.

[chrisrenrut]

I specifically recall our Area President designing a door approach for us that included inviting to baptism. It was Elder Pinnock. That dude was a hard-ass. Elder Kikuchi, on the other hand, was a soft-touch.

Were you in the northwest around 1991? He had Kikuchi and Pinnock visit us in Vancouver around then. And I agree with your assessment. I started to worry about my faith, because I really didn’t like Pinnock or his approach, and felt I wasn’t sustaining the Lord’s anointed.

[falafel]

Were you in the northwest around 1991? He had Kikuchi and Pinnock visit us in Vancouver around then. And I agree with your assessment. I started to worry about my faith, because I really didn’t like Pinnock or his approach, and felt I wasn’t sustaining the Lord’s anointed.

They must have been promoted because this was in Chicago in 1999 or so. I felt the same as you about my opinion of Pinnock. He apparently died in 2000.

[Northwestcoug]

I specifically recall our Area President designing a door approach for us that included inviting to baptism. It was Elder Pinnock. That dude was a hard-ass. Elder Kikuchi, on the other hand, was a soft-touch.

Yeah, I also remember rogue missionary tactics that involved inviting someone to get baptized after a second formal meeting with an investigator. It came before talk about the WOW, tithing, and the restoration. Crazy times.

[LVAllen]

Were you in the northwest around 1991? He had Kikuchi and Pinnock visit us in Vancouver around then. And I agree with your assessment. I started to worry about my faith, because I really didn’t like Pinnock or his approach, and felt I wasn’t sustaining the Lord’s anointed.

Elder Kikuchi was still a soft touch in 2000. I had the pleasure of listening to him speak once in stake conference and once at a mission conference, before he gave nearly the same talk in General Conference.