"Hold my root beer" - the Russell M. Nelson thread

[Omaha 680]

Agreed it has made huge strides in race relations. Other places it is still falling significantly short. It deserves credit, but you can't ignore the problems still exist.

WTF no one on this fair website is ignoring problems with the church. The question is, are you capable of giving deserved praise without simultaneous criticism on an unrelated issue? I could ask a similar question to hardcore believers on whether they are capable of accepting valid criticism without simultaneously defending by bringing up unrelated good things the church has done.

[Green Monstah]

Lame. I was imagining a bunch of volunteers in yellow vests dumping truckloads of those big water cooler type jugs into the GSL. Would have been a cool photo app.

*Puts away his Mormon Helping Hands T-shirt.

[All-American]

WTF no one on this fair website is ignoring problems with the church.

[Hazzard]

I see no problem with this based on what he has done.

While he rightfully was commended for this work, I don't see a similar award for his work with the LGBTQ community.

Good point. The reason, of course, is that the recent alignment with black causes is really all about joining together with the diminishing number of socially acceptable groups who will fight against LGBTQ rights.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Good point. The reason, of course, is that the recent alignment with black causes is really all about joining together with the diminishing number of socially acceptable groups who will fight against LGBTQ rights.

I think you just set a new record on the cynicism meter for this website. Bravo.

[Hazzard]

I think you just set a new record on the cynicism meter for this website. Bravo.

Haha. Thanks!

But really: it's so odd that the Church all of a sudden started partnering up with so many black organizations right around the time that the Republican party turned toward Trump and away from the Reagan/Bush version, which was more about "traditional values." I can't think of another explanation other than to form alliances for political purposes, chief among them their similarities on LGBTQ issues. The alliances with evangelicals have taken a backseat as the evangelicals have embraced Trump.

Maybe there's another logical explanation that I'm not thinking of?

[All-American]

Haha. Thanks!

But really: it's so odd that the Church all of a sudden started partnering up with so many black organizations right around the time that the Republican party turned toward Trump and away from the Reagan/Bush version, which was more about "traditional values." I can't think of another explanation other than to form alliances for political purposes, chief among them their similarities on LGBTQ issues. The alliances with evangelicals have taken a backseat as the evangelicals have embraced Trump.

Maybe there's another logical explanation that I'm not thinking of?

Yes. Think of other things that could have made a difference that also changed around this period. Like, say, January 2018.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Haha. Thanks!

But really: it's so odd that the Church all of a sudden started partnering up with so many black organizations right around the time that the Republican party turned toward Trump and away from the Reagan/Bush version, which was more about "traditional values." I can't think of another explanation other than to form alliances for political purposes, chief among them their similarities on LGBTQ issues. The alliances with evangelicals have taken a backseat as the evangelicals have embraced Trump.

Maybe there's another logical explanation that I'm not thinking of?

Your theory is not only condescending/insulting to the church, but you have managed to disparage black organizations at the same time. Quite a feat.

[Non Sequitur]

Haha. Thanks!

But really: it's so odd that the Church all of a sudden started partnering up with so many black organizations right around the time that the Republican party turned toward Trump and away from the Reagan/Bush version, which was more about "traditional values." I can't think of another explanation other than to form alliances for political purposes, chief among them their similarities on LGBTQ issues. The alliances with evangelicals have taken a backseat as the evangelicals have embraced Trump.

Maybe there's another logical explanation that I'm not thinking of?

I don't think it has much to do with LGBTQ. I think it has a lot to do with both the Church and Black evangelicals finding themselves on the outside looking in at the storm of White Christian Nationalism that MAGA has ignited. You make your alliances where you can find them.

[tooblue]

I don't think it has much to do with LGBTQ. I think it has a lot to do with both the Church and Black evangelicals finding themselves on the outside looking in at the storm of White Christian Nationalism that MAGA has ignited. You make your alliances where you can find them.

What one researcher calls the ‘seismic political shift’ happening among young Latter-day Saints

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2023/4...ess-republican

Where the claim that young Americans are ditching the Republican Party does hold up is among young adherents of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Burge has found that young Latter-day Saints are “significantly less conservative” than older ones and described the change as a “seismic political shift”

[Scott R Nelson]

Where the claim that young Americans are ditching the Republican Party does hold up is among young adherents of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Burge has found that young Latter-day Saints are “significantly less conservative” than older ones and described the change as a “seismic political shift”

I'm not sure that I've moved my position politically in the past decade or two, but I'm a lot further from the current Republican Party than I used to be. I think maybe they moved.

[Moliere]

Good point. The reason, of course, is that the recent alignment with black causes is really all about joining together with the diminishing number of socially acceptable groups who will fight against LGBTQ rights.

The naacp is willing to fight against LGBTQ rights?

Ill use Occams Razor and theorize that the church feels bad about how it treated black people for 130 years and is trying to make amends. Kudos to President Nelson for really accelerating that work.

[MartyFunkhouser]

The naacp is willing to fight against LGBTQ rights?

Ill use Occams Razor and theorize that the church feels bad about how it treated black people for 130 years and is trying to make amends. Kudos to President Nelson for really accelerating that work.

Yeah, I agree with you. I'll join your podcast and talk about this for 3-4 hours.

[YOhio]

I've been thinking a lot about President Nelson's April 2023 "Peacemakers Needed" conference address. As evidenced by this 113 page thread, President Nelson has been a transformational church leader. But I think this talk was genuinely one of the most prophetic of his presidency. Prophetic as in acting as a mouthpiece of God speaking to his children and telling them to stop fighting and be nice.

Vulgarity, faultfinding, and evil speaking of others are all too common. Too many pundits, politicians, entertainers, and other influencers throw insults constantly. I am greatly concerned that so many people seem to believe that it is completely acceptable to condemn, malign, and vilify anyone who does not agree with them. Many seem eager to damage another’s reputation with pathetic and pithy barbs!

Anger never persuades. Hostility builds no one. Contention never leads to inspired solutions. Regrettably, we sometimes see contentious behavior even within our own ranks. We hear of those who belittle their spouses and children, of those who use angry outbursts to control others, and of those who punish family members with the “silent treatment.” We hear of youth and children who bully and of employees who defame their colleagues.
...
My dear brothers and sisters, how we treat each other really matters! How we speak to and about others at home, at church, at work, and online really matters. Today, I am asking us to interact with others in a higher, holier way. Please listen carefully. “If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy”that we can say about another person—whether to his face or behind her back—that should be our standard of communication.

If a couple in your ward gets divorced, or a young missionary returns home early, or a teenager doubts his testimony, they do not need your judgment. They need to experience the pure love of Jesus Christ reflected in your words and actions.

If a friend on social media has strong political or social views that violate everything you believe in, an angry, cutting retort by you will not help. Building bridges of understanding will require much more of you, but that is exactly what your friend needs.

Contention drives away the Spirit—every time. Contention reinforces the false notion that confrontation is the way to resolve differences; but it never is. Contention is a choice. Peacemaking is a choice. You have your agency to choose contention or reconciliation. I urge you to choose to be a peacemaker, now and always.

One of the challenges of this talk is that it forces introspection, especially when my natural instinct is to think of all the others to whom it applies. Back in the October 2020 General Conference Elder Oaks gave a talk titled "Love Your Enemies." In the talk he vaguely referenced the BLM riots of Summer 2020, but also spoke of peacefully accepting election results. Around the time I was EQ instructor and asked to use this talk for a lesson in late December, just prior to Jan 6. After teaching the lesson I got a handful of texts from a few of our more conservative members referencing the BLM riots. A couple weeks later after the Capitol riots I had a couple conversations with more liberal members where they mentioned the talk. I was struck by how in all of these interactions the condemnation was pointed outward. As if they were using a conference talk as a mote x-ray for their brother when the entire point is that it should be a self-administered beam scanner.

This has been on my mind a lot lately and inspired me to try be better, particularly as the election season rolls around. My tendency is to seek after anything that is the opposite of 'virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy.' Especially when it makes someone I don't like look bad. It's not easy and I'm sure I'll fail at times, especially when I'm really good at saying mean things. Like if it were a gift of the spirit I'd have it. But I'm trying to listen carefully and redefine my standard of communication.

Please listen carefully. “If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy” that we can say about another person—whether to his face or behind her back—that should be our standard of communication.

[Pelado]

I've been thinking a lot about President Nelson's April 2023 "Peacemakers Needed" conference address. As evidenced by this 113 page thread, President Nelson has been a transformational church leader. But I think this talk was genuinely one of the most prophetic of his presidency. Prophetic as in acting as a mouthpiece of God speaking to his children and telling them to stop fighting and be nice.



One of the challenges of this talk is that it forces introspection, especially when my natural instinct is to think of all the others to whom it applies. Back in the October 2020 General Conference Elder Oaks gave a talk titled "Love Your Enemies." In the talk he vaguely referenced the BLM riots of Summer 2020, but also spoke of peacefully accepting election results. Around the time I was EQ instructor and asked to use this talk for a lesson in late December, just prior to Jan 6. After teaching the lesson I got a handful of texts from a few of our more conservative members referencing the BLM riots. A couple weeks later after the Capitol riots I had a couple conversations with more liberal members where they mentioned the talk. I was struck by how in all of these interactions the condemnation was pointed outward. As if they were using a conference talk as a mote x-ray for their brother when the entire point is that it should be a self-administered beam scanner.

This has been on my mind a lot lately and inspired me to try be better, particularly as the election season rolls around. My tendency is to seek after anything that is the opposite of 'virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy.' Especially when it makes someone I don't like look bad. It's not easy and I'm sure I'll fail at times, especially when I'm really good at saying mean things. Like if it were a gift of the spirit I'd have it. But I'm trying to listen carefully and redefine my standard of communication.

Seek after the best gifts.