Latest Stats and Facts on Punography

[RobinFinderson]

Then it's not really an affair, is it?

What percentage of marriages have "open relationships"?

By that logic, maybe abuse cases involve a victim with masochistic fetishes. We shouldn't judge until the facts are in.

It always helps to make sure folks are talking about the same thing.

[RobinFinderson]

An interesting case study would be the Clintons. Bill has been a petulant philanderer. Hillary has persisted in the relationship. IMO, it looks like they feign concern about Bill's proclivities, because people would reject their public service if what I suspect to be the truth were to come out -- they have an open relationship.

[myboynoah]

An interesting case study would be the Clintons. Bill has been a petulant philanderer. Hillary has persisted in the relationship. IMO, it looks like they feign concern about Bill's proclivities, because people would reject their public service if what I suspect to be the truth were to come out -- they have an open relationship.

I think you're out to lunch on that one.

[I.J. Reilly]

An interesting case study would be the Clintons. Bill has been a petulant philanderer. Hillary has persisted in the relationship. IMO, it looks like they feign concern about Bill's proclivities, because people would reject their public service if what I suspect to be the truth were to come out -- they have an open relationship.

She was mad about something else when she left that big welt across his face right before his press conference. Totally unrelated.

[Non Sequitur]

An interesting case study would be the Clintons. Bill has been a petulant philanderer. Hillary has persisted in the relationship. IMO, it looks like they feign concern about Bill's proclivities, because people would reject their public service if what I suspect to be the truth were to come out -- they have an open relationship.

A "petulant" philander? As Fezzik would say, "I don't think that word means what you think it means."

[marsupial]

An interesting case study would be the Clintons. Bill has been a petulant philanderer. Hillary has persisted in the relationship. IMO, it looks like they feign concern about Bill's proclivities, because people would reject their public service if what I suspect to be the truth were to come out -- they have an open relationship.

Spouses often choose to stay married despite the affair. There are many reasons to do this. It doesn't make the relationship open.

[RobinFinderson]

A "petulant" philander? As Fezzik would say, "I don't think that word means what you think it means."

Can we just pretend I said 'serial?'

[RobinFinderson]

She was mad about something else when she left that big welt across his face right before his press conference. Totally unrelated.

Spouses often choose to stay married despite the affair. There are many reasons to do this. It doesn't make the relationship open.

It is just a guess. Does Hillary seriously think Bill lives a monk's life when her work takes her all over the planet for days on end?

[marsupial]

It is just a guess. Does Hillary seriously think Bill lives a monk's life when her work takes her all over the planet for days on end?

Knowing isn't necessarily approval or encouragement. I don't know what goes on in their private conversations. Perhaps she did say, "Bill, why don't you explore all your sexual options? Monogamy is boring." More than likely though, she merely puts up with his philandering because the benefits of their marriage outweigh the pain or hurt of his infidelity.

[UtahDan]

Both of us are against the use of prostitutes and sex outside of marriage, not because we see it as a betrayal of trust, but rather because of the health risks and cost associated with it. But theoretically, if you were to eliminate all of the risks and the moral quandaries that go with a business typically run by thugs and slavers, I don't think she would have a problem with it. But I don't want to put words into her mouth, so I will emphasize that this is simply what I think she would say (we haven't discussed the subject with all of the caveats ER raised).

You guys found each other at BYU right? Delicious.

[UtahDan]

A "petulant" philander? As Fezzik would say, "I don't think that word means what you think it means."

It was Inigo who said that.

[RobinFinderson]

Knowing isn't necessarily approval or encouragement. I don't know what goes on in their private conversations. Perhaps she did say, "Bill, why don't you explore all your sexual options? Monogamy is boring." More than likely though, she merely puts up with his philandering because the benefits of their marriage outweigh the pain or hurt of his infidelity.

Ultimately people are their own masters, and marriage isn't a form of slavery. While it is still only a guess, I would argue that the difference between 'approval' and 'toleration' isn't so distinct after a point.

As an example closer to home, though not perfectly related, when I finally decided to resign from the church, I didn't ask for Faith's permission. As the owner of my self I told her that it was something I felt I had to do to balance the inner tension between life and belief. It didn't matter if she 'approved.' It was something I had to do for myself, and I hoped it wouldn't harm our relationship.

[Babs]

Is anybody else just dying to hear Faith's perspective on all this?

RF, open marriage is exceedingly rare and the divorce rate is high. Usually couples turn to open marriage not because they're just that enlightened or progressive, but because they simply can't or don't want to commit.

[LA Ute]

I honestly don't know what to do with this information. I don't know whether to be more suspect of the mindset of men I interact with who don't speak of women this way; I don't know what weight to apply to the term "many" above; and, if I assign any non-crackpot credence to this idea, I'm left with all manner of confusion re: what my place in this world.

Those are cosmic questions that I will not try to answer. But I do think that men (and the women who care about them) need to acknowledge the male nature and not fight, deny, or suppress it. Sexually, we are wired the way we are wired. (So are women.)

I hesitate to go scriptural, but the best way I have found to make sense of this is in Alma 38: "[S]ee that ye bridle all your passions, that ye may be filled with love . . . ." One of the most interesting passages anywhere on the subject. I love the analogy: There's no denying a horse's strength and power, but it can be bridled -- held to a stop when need be, to a slow trot when that is right, and at a full gallup when it's time for that. A bridle does not fight, deny, or suppress the horse's amazing strength. It simply directs it!

I also like the idea that bridling passions enables us to be filled with love. There's a fireside talk in that somewhere.

Not sure that makes sense. Back to work for me!

[Babs]

Ultimately people are their own masters, and marriage isn't a form of slavery. While it is still only a guess, I would argue that the difference between 'approval' and 'toleration' isn't so distinct after a point.

your posts have been all over the place as you try to construct a logically consistent case from a logically inconsistent position.

By your own definitions, for Bill not to have been conducting an affair, Hillary would have had to have agreed to the open relationship before he started seeing other women. Soup is suggesting that Hillary did no such thing, but that after his pattern of serial adultery became apparent, she shrugged and gave up fighting. That's very different than the a priori approval that you were speaking of as the basis of a mutually respectful, open relationship.