Latest Stats and Facts on Punography

[scottie]

There's a difference between sharing different viewpoints and pathologicial gainsaying and derision.

Define pathologicial gainsaying and derision.

[DU Ute]

Define pathologicial gainsaying and derision.

[Jeff Lebowski]

SU and Robin: When you jump into threads among believing members of the church (or any church, for that matter) in which the members are trying to figure out how best to live their beliefs, and you simply make snarky comments about the belief in question, do you realize what jackasses you look like?

?? I think they have both been pretty well-behaved in this thread.

Finally, does anyone really think that the possibility that sexual violence has decreased as porn use has increased has anything at all to do with the spiritual aspects of the problem?

Has anyone said it does?

[ERCougar]

Re the Pres. Hinckley story, think it is wrong-headed to start judging the wife's response or to wonder about who was right and who was wrong in that marriage. To me that misses the entire point of the story, which is a tragedy in which porn played a huge part. It's not about whether the wife's response was over the top. That her husband put her in a position where she struggled to forgive him as he died is the heart-breaking part. He sinned, she may have responded badly, but it started with porn and with him. Perhaps by now she has forgiven him. I think we men should all try very hard not to need that level of forgiveness from our wives!

I can agree that the story is tragic all around, and that his porn use (or really, more accurately, his concealment of his porn use) likely played a role. But I think SU's point is well-made that porn becomes the bogeyman in this scenario and many others, often concealing other very real factors. This woman's story does exactly this--blames her somewhat failed marriage on porn, when in reality, the constant criticism and mistreatment likely played a larger role. Would this hypercritical husband have been Mr. Sensitivity had he not ever viewed pornography? Maybe, but I doubt it.

That's sort of a minor point in the larger discussion. We both agree that secretive porn use damages marriages (RF probably even agrees with that). The question is how to help people eliminate it.

[Indy Coug]

That's sort of a minor point in the larger discussion. We both agree that secretive porn use damages marriages (RF probably even agrees with that). The question is how to help people eliminate it.

[ERCougar]

I could be way off base and don't have any studies to support this, just an observation.

It seems for a person to develop a porn addiction it requires 1) combination of childhood trauma and inclination to obsessive/impulsive behavior (this would be generic to any addiction and include other mental disorders that include self-destructive behavior) 2) a real shame-based taboo view of porn.

Yes, it's terrible what some men do to themselves and their wives, but is the answer to clamp down on porn and preach how terrible it is? Does this create even more shame and taboo around a somewhat normal behavior and create even more porn addicts? Maybe the answer is to treat it like it's no big deal from a young age. Let males that go through that phase get their fill and let them move on? I don't know.

I would agree with this. I don't have the answer either, but the question I'm asking in my head is, do these people (the missionary who got sent home, Rocky's friend, President Hinckley's example, any number of other acquaintances we all have) not think that porn is wrong? I guess you can't know that without talking to them, but my guess is that they do think it's wrong. So how do we fix the problem? Telling it to them more frequently?

EDIT: In fairness, I do think that Church leaders are shifting their counsel from "you're evil if you look at porn" to "if you have a problem, there are loving people out there to help you--seek their help". I like this approach much better. But I shudder a little when I read characterizations like "devilish". I don't doubt the intent of the messenger--I just think the recipient needs to be very carefully considered.
By the way, I actually really like the rest of his talk. I'm just not crazy about the use of the woman's example and his subsequent analysis. But he's a prophet and I'm an assistant teacher's quorum leader, so take that for what it's worth.

[LA Ute]

LA, what about people providing information and perspective that balances a thread?

I do not think our friends Robin and SU intend to balance any thread. I still like them, though.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I just went back and glanced through the thread. I really can't understand why anyone would take offense with what Robin and SU have posted here.

[LA Ute]

I just went back and glanced through the thread. I really can't understand why anyone would take offense with what Robin and SU have posted here.

Maybe I was just in a bad mood, but it sure seemed to me that comparing LDS attitudes on porn to Amish attitudes on electricity didn't add any balance or perspective to the thread, and was not intended to do that. It was funny, but seemed mean-spirited.

[beefytee]

Maybe the answer is to treat it like it's no big deal from a young age. Let males that go through that phase get their fill and let them move on? I don't know.

wuapinmon personal experience seems to contradict this thesis.

I don't know much of his background, but it doesn't seem like his folks treated it like it was a big deal. It didn't seem like it was a big deal until he joined the church.

Of course wuapinmon can speak for himself.

[Donuthole]

I just went back and glanced through the thread. I really can't understand why anyone would take offense with what Robin and SU have posted here.

I agree. SU has even made it abundantly clear in this thread that he despises pornography and its effects, and Robin, while expressing a sentiment which is not shared by many on this board, has been most respectful and non-confrontational in doing so.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Maybe I was just in a bad mood, but it sure seemed to me that comparing LDS attitudes to porn to Amish attitudes to electricity didn't add any balance or perspective to the thread, and was not intended to do that. It was funny, but seemed mean-spirited.

Interesting. I have a tough time ever thinking of Robin as mean-spirited.

[scottie]

Maybe I was just in a bad mood, but it sure seemed to me that comparing LDS attitudes to porn to Amish attitudes to electricity didn't add any balance or perspective to the thread, and was not intended to do that. It was funny, but seemed mean-spirited.

Not to be a prick LA, but more mean-spirited than asking SU and Robin if they realize what jackasses they look like?

[LA Ute]

Interesting. I have a tough time ever thinking of Robin as mean-spirited.

He can certainly come forward and say he didn't mean it that way.

[LA Ute]

Not to be a prick LA, but more mean-spirited than asking SU and Robin if they realize what jackasses they look like?

I guess I see that as blunt but not mean-spirited. I did not mean to hurt them and wonder if that is possible in discussions like this one. I am in hand-to-hand [EDIT: I meant to say combat] contact with SU here all the time. I do think they were having a little joke at church members' expense, and I always dislike that. I don't sit around with my Catholic friends and make snarky comments about how weird I think transubstantiation is.