I learned in church today

[Solon]

Ranking them from 1-1000 doesn't make any sense. On the other hand, common sense would say murder is worse of a sin than drinking coffee.

In a perfect world, it would actually be laudable to murder people who won't shut up about the ultra-high quality of their coffee .

[BlueK]

Is it fair to say that the unrepentant, fully educated, endowed member of the church is damned? No matter what the sin is?

I think it's fair to say I don't agree with church members who live in constant worry that any little imperfection of theirs is cause for fear of ending up in hell.

[SandYFan]

I think it's fair to say I don't agree with church members who live in constant worry that any little imperfection of theirs is cause for fear of ending up in hell.

This place is really good for getting non-answers to questions.

I completely agree, by the way.

That said, as far as I know, intent factors hugely into one's worthiness in the eyes of God. If we're trying, and repenting and actually making the effort to be good, screwing up isn't fatal and not worth obsessing over.

In the context of the larger discussion, a gay person living in a legal, committed gay marriage with another gay person is not trying. Is not repenting. And as such, it damned, right?

For the record, I don't believe in a God who does, in fact, damn this individual.

[Jeff Lebowski]

This place is really good for getting non-answers to questions.

I completely agree, by the way.

That said, as far as I know, intent factors hugely into one's worthiness in the eyes of God. If we're trying, and repenting and actually making the effort to be good, screwing up isn't fatal and not worth obsessing over.

In the context of the larger discussion, a gay person living in a legal, committed gay marriage with another gay person is not trying. Is not repenting. And as such, it damned, right?

For the record, I don't believe in a God who does, in fact, damn this individual.

Try posing more interesting questions.

[Eddie]

Well - everybody is damned, to be honest.

Until this little thing comes along called the atonement.

I make it a practice not to try to decide how God is going to judge others or how the atonement will be applied for them. I figure working out my own salvation with God is enough work without trying to figure out what everyone else is supposed to do too.

[Commando]

Is it fair to say that the unrepentant, fully educated, endowed member of the church is damned? No matter what the sin is?

Yes, but depends what you mean by unrepentant and what you mean by damned.


And what you mean by endowed.

[snowcat]

I am not one who will be that bothered if one day we are told the Prophet got a revelation and gays can marry in the Temple. I doubt that is going to happen during my remaining years here, but who knows.

I also am not asking for everything to be explained to me. The things I don't understand, which are numerous, I just figure will be explained on the other side.

If gays end up having Temple marriages one of those explanations involve eternal progression. I think the doctrine is still that we can become God's and Godesses and procreate and do what God has done. Would that mean that for gays who marry in the Temple and live righteous lives there will be adoptions in the hereafter?

I know none of you have an answer, it is just something I thought about and like with a lot of things will not think much about it in the future.

Here is a preview:
[YOUTUBE]2ETCM90yHiY[/YOUTUBE]

[Bo Diddley]

So you're splitting hairs. This goes for every sin ever, right?

Working from the frame of reference that someone has been taught that homosexual intercourse is a sin, entering into gay marriage means you are unrepentant about engaging in the act, and as such, God is super mad at you and your progression is stopped. Hence my use of the word damned.

Of course it goes for every sin. Christ will be the judge. Who am I to judge another, when I walk imperfectly?

And as for your example, I'll restate my question: what about all the gay people who get married who never truly had a chance to hear the Gospel preached?

[ERCougar]

In a perfect world, it would actually be laudable to murder people who won't shut up about the ultra-high quality of their coffee .

Listen, a-hole. I die, no pie.

[Mormon Red Death]

In a perfect world, it would actually be laudable to murder people who won't shut up about the ultra-high quality of their coffee .

https://youtu.be/IgzFPOMjiC8

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

In a perfect world, it would actually be laudable to murder people who won't shut up about the ultra-high quality of their coffee .

Or beer/microbrew.

[Solon]

Listen, a-hole. I die, no pie.

You're not an offender, but this reaction suggests a guilty conscience. Shot birds flutter.

Or beer/microbrew.

Amen & Amen.

[Pelado]

I make it a practice not to try to decide how God is going to judge others or how the atonement will be applied for them. I figure working out my own salvation with God is enough work without trying to figure out what everyone else is supposed to do too.

So selfish and lazy.

[PaloAltoCougar]

We had an outstanding talk in Sac. Meeting today. A young Asian woman, new to the ward, began by saying she was a recent convert and this was her first talk. She said her NM mother had taught her that if you are called upon to speak, and you bore people, you have sinned, and she hoped she wouldn't sin. She didn't.

She said she was born in Saigon a few months before its fall in 1975. Her family had been involved with the South Vietnam government was was severely punished by the conquering North. Several escape attempts failed, but her father and two other guys built a forty-foot boat out of wood they removed from the second floor of their house. One night, they rowed away with three dozen people or so in the boat--her family included three small children and her mother was six months pregnant. After a few days at sea, they came within a mile or so of Malaysia but ships from the Malaysian navy ordered them to turn around and return to Vietnam. The woman's father then told all of the men to start punching holes in the floor of the boat--hoping that as their makeshift boat sank the navy would have mercy but being willing to face death rather than return to Vietnam.

They were picked up and put in a refugee camp and after a couple of years, a U.S. family sponsored her family's trip the the U.S. She provided details of her family's experiences in the U.S. and how they went from having absolutely nothing to considerable success. Her parents became owners of multiple restaurants in the Bay Area and she's now a dentist. Her husband is a doctor but wasn't there today as he's on call at the hospital. In contrast to my usual semi-comatose state, I was sitting up, leaning forward, and hanging on every word. I was also thinking these people must be among the few immigrants who Donald Trump assumes are good people.

She closed with a great testimony. By her standard, most of us sin when we give talks. She knocked it out of the park.

[TripletDaddy]

If that is the new standard, Our sac meeting was a whorehouse of abominations today. Especially egregious was a recently returned missionary reporting on his mission to Australia. That guy is going straight to outer darkness.