Why can't a bishop have 4 or 5 counselors?

[Rosebud]

Disbanding the church would be the simplest solution. Get out the ward calling tree and call everyone and tell them to never show up to church again.

Why am I not surprised that disbanding the whole project sounds better to you than ordaining the other half of the ward?

[Indy Coug]

Why am I not surprised that disbanding the whole project sounds better to you than ordaining the other half of the ward?

Because I'm determined to stretch out your point as long as possible since you seem intent on being so coy.

[jay santos]

Why am I not surprised that disbanding the whole project sounds better to you than ordaining the other half of the ward?

I love your avatar.

[mUUser]

This thread seems to lend credence to this:

http://www.cougaruteforum.com/showpost.php?p=295844&postcount=33

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I tend to agree. The issue with that is meeting space.

For the time being, combine two wards' meetings and then alternate weekly or monthly which ward has conducting and teaching responsibilities. Over time, build smaller meeting houses. The callings that take the most time are bishop, bishopric, RS, EQP and YM/YW. I would propose that each ward have its own YM and YW presidencies for teaching purposes but two wards would combine for activities.

[Moliere]

Scouts has a whole bureaucracy around it that people that haven't dealt with it wouldn't believe. I was in the stake young men's presidency and the adult leadership scout meetings would drive me bonkers. There are meetings at the ward level, stake level, regional level (beneath the counsel level), and then the counsel level, it was awful. I sat in on a few 2 hour meetings mostly discussing how to get 16 year old boys interested in scouts again. The other meetings all seemed to be about the bureaucracy itself, e.g. who to go to for advancement or for more support in getting 16 year olds away from girls and video games so they could play steal the bacon at the weekly scout meeting.

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[Mormon Red Death]

Ideally, we should use your model and scale it out to all wards and branches.

We have way too many unnecessary and overly-long meetings, but it isn't the Church that is requiring those meetings. They are simply a result of inefficient management. Why the heck are we meeting on Sunday night to discuss 20 minutes worth of stuff we could have discussed at Church and in an email? The answer is usually because people assume we are "supposed" to have these meetings.

Wrong. I like your notion of figuring out how to improve throughput because it recognizes from the outset that we are operating inefficiently.

When I was EQP I did what you suggested. I had presidency meeting once a month during sunday school and the rest of the time it was handled via email. My counselors were surgical residents so I didnt want to waste either of our times with useless meetings. Additionally I implemented a no stake meeting policy (with myself). I don't go to stake trainings or meetings. Its 50 minutes one way to our stake center so a two hour meeting turns into 4 hours away. Furthermore, if I went I would just be pissed off that I am hearing the same crap I heard at zone conference on my mission.

Anyway, my policies didnt sit well with stake leadership and when confronted I told the stake president that I like to be efficient with my time and I consider saturday sacred (especially in the fall and winter).

[Moliere]

http://www.cougaruteforum.com/showpost.php?p=296717&postcount=58

[beelzebabette]

In our ward three of the last four bishops has grown children, and two of them were retired but still very able-bodied. That actually worked pretty well.

There really are only a few things that only the bishop can do - mainly counseling. Some bishops I have worked with concentrate on that (in some wards there is a lot of it to do) and delegate everything else. The retired guys have tended to see the bishop calling as pretty much their job, and they spend all their time on it. (Works out great for the counselors.) But in a ward where a bishop can get strong counselors, the job should not burn him out. (Easy for me to say, I've never been bishop.) I personally don't like to see men with large young families called, but sometimes SPs feel strongly that those are the guys to call.

Not to be disrespectful, but this post leaves me thinking you have a narrow view of what leadership is available in a less well-to-do area.

Wards need to be about half the size that most are. They should combine scouts, young men and young women with another ward(s) (strength in numbers), most other things would be fine with half the size.

I think this is a great idea. When I was growing up, there was a ward in our stake with only one priest so they sent him over to our ward so he could have a better all-around YM experience. Worked out well according to him.

The above is referring to the combining option as if it's good to have smaller wards. I'm not sure smaller wards are better because a larger ward increases your odds that STP will be Same Twenty People instead of Same Ten. Just saying I think it's an interesting idea.

This brings to mind another thought....when I was a young lad, my faja had a calling of significance and I remember countless times people coming up to me saying 'how great he was' 'man of God' etc, and the only thoughts I had were, 'this asshole of a dad knows strangers better than me.' I wonder how many families feel this way, wish the church protected the families better.

Can't speak for my family, but, minus the asshole part, I definitely remember thinking this.

Obviously, I struggle with objectivity on this issue as a result.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

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Unfortunately for the boys involved, that never came up. Most of it was about following some scouting guide and then we'd go through the guide and someone would talk about how to follow the guide. It was downright Orwellian. It was like the people knew they had this time allotted and they were damn well going to use/waste it.

[Moliere]

Unfortunately for the boys involved, that never came up. Most of it was about following some scouting guide and then we'd go through the guide and someone would talk about how to follow the guide. It was downright Orwellian. It was like the people knew they had this time allotted and they were damn well going to use/waste it.

Awesome! And it reminds me of my first scouting roundtable. The person in charge of the meeting I attended was given 1 hour to do a "mock pack meeting". After completing the demonstration in 20 minutes she lamented that she still had 40 minutes to fill.

[mUUser]

As for the Elder's Quorum, if you need more than 2 counselors, you are doing something seriously wrong as the EQP.

There must be a way for those that believe they can do things better than others be given that oppty.

[mUUser]

Why am I not surprised that disbanding the whole project sounds better to you than ordaining the other half of the ward?

[Rosebud]

Because I'm determined to stretch out your point as long as possible since you seem intent on being so coy.

don't be so irritated. i'm not coy. i'm repetitive. the answer is obvious. if you don't understand what i'm getting at, it's your paradigm's fault.

[Rosebud]

I love your avatar.

thank you jay. "freakish" is the word i use to describe it.