Why can't a bishop have 4 or 5 counselors?

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  • SoCalCoug
    Ragnar Lodbrok Descendant
    • Nov 2008
    • 5214

    #1

    Why can't a bishop have 4 or 5 counselors?

    Or an Elder's Quorum president or Relief Society president?

    Here's the reason I ask:

    My brother-in-law is a counselor in his bishopric. He is also in oral surgery residency in the army, and he and his wife have 2 kids, 5 and 2, with another due in April. His wife was crying to my wife the other day about how little he's home with his work and school responsibilities, essentially leaving her to care for the kids by herself, day and night. It was overwhelming, and they just called her to be a laurel advisor, as well.

    We recently had a bishopric change, and a young father was put in as a counselor. They have four or five young children, including a 7-month-old. He was released about 8 months ago as Elder's Quorum President and has been Executive Secretary since then. It happened really quickly, and rather than being happy and excited at the new opportunity, his wife was crying because she realized she was going to see him far less over the next few years, and she was going to be on her own with all those little kids.

    Why do we do that to people? Yes, I understand that whole thing about Joseph Smith in Liberty jail and how adversity makes us stronger, but holy crap, why do we do that to ourselves? If being in a bishopric is such an overwhelming responsibility, why not put a couple more guys in there to share the load, and let the bishopric's kids have a father?

    I mean, we're all about having our home be our greatest responsibility, and we preach about how children need a father and a mother in the home, and then take some of the most capable men and make them do church work every weeknight evening and all day Sunday, so that their kids hardly see them, and turn their wives into single moms.

    It's a contradictory message, and I don't know why the church does that to people. I know it's not as big of an issue when you've got older men in the bishopric, but when you start taking young fathers with young children out of the home, aren't you fostering the same problems that we claim exist when there's only one parent in the home?
    If we disagree on something, it's because you're wrong.

    "Somebody needs to kill my trial attorney." — Last words of George Harris, executed in Missouri on Sept. 13, 2000.

    "Nothing is too good to be true, nothing is too good to last, nothing is too wonderful to happen." - Florence Scoville Shinn
  • Indy Coug
    Heartless Bastard
    • Dec 2008
    • 18747

    #2
    Frankly, most wards don't have a sufficient surplus of priesthood to pull that off.
    Everything in life is an approximation.

    http://twitter.com/CougarStats

    Comment

    • smokymountainrain
      Impressive Member
      • Nov 2008
      • 22593

      #3
      Originally posted by SoCalCoug View Post
      Or an Elder's Quorum president or Relief Society president?

      Here's the reason I ask:

      My brother-in-law is a counselor in his bishopric. He is also in oral surgery residency in the army, and he and his wife have 2 kids, 5 and 2, with another due in April. His wife was crying to my wife the other day about how little he's home with his work and school responsibilities, essentially leaving her to care for the kids by herself, day and night. It was overwhelming, and they just called her to be a laurel advisor, as well.

      We recently had a bishopric change, and a young father was put in as a counselor. They have four or five young children, including a 7-month-old. He was released about 8 months ago as Elder's Quorum President and has been Executive Secretary since then. It happened really quickly, and rather than being happy and excited at the new opportunity, his wife was crying because she realized she was going to see him far less over the next few years, and she was going to be on her own with all those little kids.

      Why do we do that to people? Yes, I understand that whole thing about Joseph Smith in Liberty jail and how adversity makes us stronger, but holy crap, why do we do that to ourselves? If being in a bishopric is such an overwhelming responsibility, why not put a couple more guys in there to share the load, and let the bishopric's kids have a father?

      I mean, we're all about having our home be our greatest responsibility, and we preach about how children need a father and a mother in the home, and then take some of the most capable men and make them do church work every weeknight evening and all day Sunday, so that their kids hardly see them, and turn their wives into single moms.

      It's a contradictory message, and I don't know why the church does that to people. I know it's not as big of an issue when you've got older men in the bishopric, but when you start taking young fathers with young children out of the home, aren't you fostering the same problems that we claim exist when there's only one parent in the home?
      I don't know the answer, but I'm on board as long as the extra guys aren't long-winded and make the meetings even longer.
      I'm like LeBron James.
      -mpfunk

      Comment

      • Indy Coug
        Heartless Bastard
        • Dec 2008
        • 18747

        #4
        As for the Elder's Quorum, if you need more than 2 counselors, you are doing something seriously wrong as the EQP.
        Everything in life is an approximation.

        http://twitter.com/CougarStats

        Comment

        • Clark Addison
          Senior Member
          • Nov 2008
          • 10301

          #5
          I have been in a ward where the Bishop had 3 counselors. This was kind of a weird case, as about 25% of the ward was Spanish speaking, and they had their own Sacrament Meeting in the Relief Society Room, while we were meeting in the chapel. The 3rd counselor worked with the Spanish Speaking members.

          The workload of Bishpric Conselors is interesting. Every Bishop I have known puts in a lot of time, but I have been friends with a couple of counselors who have told me that their job really isn't too bad. Certainly much better than a YM president or something like that. This may have more to do with the style of the Bishop (how he delegates) and the initiative of my friends.

          Comment

          • TripletDaddy
            sweet triple
            • Nov 2008
            • 58186

            #6
            Wasn't GBH brought on as a third counselor in the First Presidency?
            Fitter. Happier. More Productive.

            sigpic

            Comment

            • Indy Coug
              Heartless Bastard
              • Dec 2008
              • 18747

              #7
              Originally posted by TripletDaddy View Post
              Wasn't GBH brought on as a third counselor in the First Presidency?
              Yes, because the FP were all essentially the walking dead at that point.
              Everything in life is an approximation.

              http://twitter.com/CougarStats

              Comment

              • jay santos
                Senior Member
                • Nov 2008
                • 13652

                #8
                Originally posted by SoCalCoug View Post
                Or an Elder's Quorum president or Relief Society president?

                Here's the reason I ask:

                My brother-in-law is a counselor in his bishopric. He is also in oral surgery residency in the army, and he and his wife have 2 kids, 5 and 2, with another due in April. His wife was crying to my wife the other day about how little he's home with his work and school responsibilities, essentially leaving her to care for the kids by herself, day and night. It was overwhelming, and they just called her to be a laurel advisor, as well.

                We recently had a bishopric change, and a young father was put in as a counselor. They have four or five young children, including a 7-month-old. He was released about 8 months ago as Elder's Quorum President and has been Executive Secretary since then. It happened really quickly, and rather than being happy and excited at the new opportunity, his wife was crying because she realized she was going to see him far less over the next few years, and she was going to be on her own with all those little kids.

                Why do we do that to people? Yes, I understand that whole thing about Joseph Smith in Liberty jail and how adversity makes us stronger, but holy crap, why do we do that to ourselves? If being in a bishopric is such an overwhelming responsibility, why not put a couple more guys in there to share the load, and let the bishopric's kids have a father?

                I mean, we're all about having our home be our greatest responsibility, and we preach about how children need a father and a mother in the home, and then take some of the most capable men and make them do church work every weeknight evening and all day Sunday, so that their kids hardly see them, and turn their wives into single moms.

                It's a contradictory message, and I don't know why the church does that to people. I know it's not as big of an issue when you've got older men in the bishopric, but when you start taking young fathers with young children out of the home, aren't you fostering the same problems that we claim exist when there's only one parent in the home?
                I don't blame the church. I blame the person that accepts the calling.

                Comment

                • fusnik
                  Senior Member
                  • Nov 2008
                  • 4475

                  #9
                  I'm my stake prior to my current stake the stake presidency said they received directive from SLC HQ for the wards to do two things: call at least one younger guy into the bishopric, and to run the presidencies of the auxiliaries as comittees, four headed monsters so to speak. In my current stake, all the bishoprics have a dude in his late 20's or early 30's in the bishopric and the ward level leadership has been instructed to run the groups as committees. I don't know if our current stake received the same pilot as my previous stake or if its just coincidence.

                  Comment

                  • happyone
                    Board Bookworm
                    • Mar 2009
                    • 5394

                    #10
                    Originally posted by TripletDaddy View Post
                    Wasn't GBH brought on as a third counselor in the First Presidency?
                    Yes he was, and David O McKay also had a couple extra counselors in his declining years.

                    I may be small, but I'm slow.

                    A veteran - whether active duty, retired, or national guard or reserve is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to, "The United States of America ", for an amount of "up to and including my life - it's an honor."

                    Comment

                    • TripletDaddy
                      sweet triple
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 58186

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Indy Coug View Post
                      Yes, because the FP were all essentially the walking dead at that point.
                      Correct, but my point being that I don't think it is accurate to say that a Bishop "can't" have 4 counselors. It may not be standard ops, but I don't think there is a rule that says that having more than 2 counselors is prohibited. In fact, it is clear that there is no such rule, at least in the FP.
                      Fitter. Happier. More Productive.

                      sigpic

                      Comment

                      • RobinFinderson
                        Banned
                        • Nov 2008
                        • 10548

                        #12
                        FYI, descendants of Levi (per patriarchal blessing) may serve as Bishop with ZERO counselors... God help them.

                        Comment

                        • SoCalCoug
                          Ragnar Lodbrok Descendant
                          • Nov 2008
                          • 5214

                          #13
                          Originally posted by jay santos View Post
                          I don't blame the church. I blame the person that accepts the calling.
                          Isn't it the unwritten rule that you accept whatever calling you are given? You can't simply say "no" to the Lord, can you?
                          If we disagree on something, it's because you're wrong.

                          "Somebody needs to kill my trial attorney." — Last words of George Harris, executed in Missouri on Sept. 13, 2000.

                          "Nothing is too good to be true, nothing is too good to last, nothing is too wonderful to happen." - Florence Scoville Shinn

                          Comment

                          • SoCalCoug
                            Ragnar Lodbrok Descendant
                            • Nov 2008
                            • 5214

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Indy Coug View Post
                            Frankly, most wards don't have a sufficient surplus of priesthood to pull that off.
                            Two extra men?
                            If we disagree on something, it's because you're wrong.

                            "Somebody needs to kill my trial attorney." — Last words of George Harris, executed in Missouri on Sept. 13, 2000.

                            "Nothing is too good to be true, nothing is too good to last, nothing is too wonderful to happen." - Florence Scoville Shinn

                            Comment

                            • SoCalCoug
                              Ragnar Lodbrok Descendant
                              • Nov 2008
                              • 5214

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Indy Coug View Post
                              As for the Elder's Quorum, if you need more than 2 counselors, you are doing something seriously wrong as the EQP.
                              Yeah, you're probably right about that.
                              If we disagree on something, it's because you're wrong.

                              "Somebody needs to kill my trial attorney." — Last words of George Harris, executed in Missouri on Sept. 13, 2000.

                              "Nothing is too good to be true, nothing is too good to last, nothing is too wonderful to happen." - Florence Scoville Shinn

                              Comment

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