Why can't a bishop have 4 or 5 counselors?

[fusnik]

Indy you are joking, no? PPI's, home teaching, blessings to those in need, trainings with teachers, visits with the missionaries, if you are running an EQP according to the CHOI you need all the help you can get.

[creekster]

The answer to the question is that bishops can have more than two counselors if necessary. What is necessary is at the SP discretion, I believe.

My wife is RS prez and has three counselors. She needed this because I have a busy job, a busy calling, kids at home, and the demanding duties of a doyen of CUF, which cannot be underestimated.

[The_Tick]

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[Indy Coug]

Indy you are joking, no? PPI's, home teaching, blessings to those in need, trainings with teachers, visits with the missionaries, if you are running an EQP according to the CHOI you need all the help you can get.

I've been in six EQ presidencies, so no, I'm not joking. Two counselors and a secretary is more than sufficient.

[mUUser]

My wife is RS prez and has three counselors. She needed this because I have a busy job, a busy calling, kids at home, and the demanding duties of a doyen of CUF, which cannot be underestimated.

Not to mention interests outside of work & church -- skiing, boating, coaching little league, dog shows, jeepin, playing an instrument, sports message boards and a million other things. Life should largely consist more than just work & church (at least my life should).

[RobinFinderson]

The church should just give women the priesthood, and then simply not extend them any leadership callings in any significant numbers, just like they did with black men. Voila! Problem solved.

[mUUser]

Roseblood,

Most of the women that I know would never be interested in the least to run the Ward.

Irrelevant. Most sane men aren't interested in it either.

[LA Ute]

Not to be disrespectful, but this post leaves me thinking you have a narrow view of what leadership is available in a less well-to-do area.

No disrespect detected. Sorry, I miscommunicated. I was just speaking of ideals (bishop has many people to delegate to, and does) as opposed to reality (sometimes bishop just does it himself; and, as you suggest, sometimes the luxury of delegating is not there). Our ward is one where everyone has a pretty responsible calling and is never really released, just switched to another similarly responsible calling.

I think this is a great idea. When I was growing up, there was a ward in our stake with only one priest so they sent him over to our ward so he could have a better all-around YM experience. Worked out well according to him.

We combined YM, YW, and primary in our ward (then-Elder Uchtdorf even endorsed the idea when he reorganized our stake). It worked fabulously. I know of many wards where this has been done. It just requires some unorthodox [] re-jiggering of schedules and commitment from leaders. If anyone ever wants to see the blueprint we used, let me know. We stopped when boundaries were revised and the two wards that were combining no longer were in the same building. The YM and YW still combine for activities on Tuesday night, and that still works great.

[LA Ute]

The church should just give women the priesthood, and then simply not extend them any leadership callings in any significant numbers, just like they did with black men.

I can tell it's been a while since you went to church in the L.A. area.

[Rosebud]

Roseblood,

Most of the women that I know would never be interested in the least to run the Ward.

Of the very few that would like to, I have come to the following conclusions:

1. There is a difference between thinking you would like to do it, and then having to do it. It would be handled just as inefficiantly as it currently is.

2. They served missions. Now let me say this....not all Sister Missionaries were man haters. I served around a few that were really good Sisters. I can think of <5 Sisters in my 2 years that would fit into the really "good" category. (In that same thought though....I didn't think very highly of most of the Elders in my mission either. I was never a leader because I don't like being told what to do. If it sounds stupid, I will let you know and I wont follow it = No leadership for me.)

Putting it mildly....the only women in my current ward that would like to run it are turbo bitches that would have church attendance down to <10 because of their current "my way or the highway" attitude that they run their current orgs.

so do you think that women who want equality are man-haters? am I a man-hater? do you think that women who have leadership skills are bitches? am I a bitch?

i'm not saying women are more efficient than men. i'm saying that if women held the priesthood there would be at least twice as many priesthood holders per ward. men who are at work all day could come home and spend time with the kids. women could get away for a few hours to do some service outside of the home. i think everyone would benefit.

[RobinFinderson]

I can tell it's been a while since you went to church in the L.A. area.

Where is there a black bishop in a primarily white area?

Edit: I made my original point with TIC, but this is an interesting question... yes, the church has black leadership in black neighborhoods, but what about black bishops in white neighborhoods? Does it happen? Has anyone ever seen it happen? I haven't.

[Moliere]

so do you think that women who want equality are man-haters? am I a man-hater? do you think that women who have leadership skills are bitches? am I a bitch?

i'm not saying women are more efficient than men. i'm saying that if women held the priesthood there would be at least twice as many priesthood holders per ward. men who are at work all day could come home and spend time with the kids. women could get away for a few hours to do some service outside of the home. i think everyone would benefit.

I hope and pray that one day you become a bishop.

[Moliere]

Where is there a black bishop in a primarily white area?

Edit: I made my original point with TIC, but this is an interesting question... yes, the church has black leadership in black neighborhoods, but what about black bishops in white neighborhoods? Does it happen? Has anyone ever seen it happen? I haven't.

Had one in Rouen France. He was the only black guy in the ward.

[The_Tick]

so do you think that women who want equality are man-haters? am I a man-hater? do you think that women who have leadership skills are bitches? am I a bitch?

i'm not saying women are more efficient than men. i'm saying that if women held the priesthood there would be at least twice as many priesthood holders per ward. men who are at work all day could come home and spend time with the kids. women could get away for a few hours to do some service outside of the home. i think everyone would benefit.

No chance.

We would be right where we are now. But this time it would be "my wife is spending too much time in her calling and not enough time with me and the kids."

So a woman can't be:
Bishop
Bishopric
Exec Sec
Ward Clerk
Financial Clerk
HPGL
EQP
YMP
SS Pres. (not sure on this one)
Dad

A man can't be:
RS Pres
YW Pres
Primary Pres
Mom

I don't really see it as an equality issue. In my experience, when a Sister starts talking about attaining the Priesthood she is power hungry. "I would be a good Bishop", "I could run this more effectively".

Just so you know...I have it, recieve no benefits for having it, and don't want any of the callings that are "designated for men only" other than being Dad.

[LA Ute]

Where is there a black bishop in a primarily white area?

I don't know of any, but that means nothing. Since when is representation at the bishop level the standard? My (formerly lily-white) stake has or has had black EQPs, black high councilors, Asian bishops, adult convert bishops (and entire stake presidencies who joined the church as adults), you name it. It's all about demographics. Leadership reflects the population of the ward or stake. I am pretty sure that if you controlled for statistical presence of a certain ethnic group, there is no discernible discrimination. Not in areas like L.A. or New York.