Why can't a bishop have 4 or 5 counselors?

[DU Ute]

FYI, descendants of Levi (per patriarchal blessing) may serve as Bishop with ZERO counselors... God help them.

Was the fear of this possibility what got you to quit?

[Indy Coug]

Two extra men?

How much time does your brother-in-law spend with his calling outside of the Sunday meetings he goes to?

[RobinFinderson]

Was the fear of this possibility what got you to quit?

Nope. I'm a good ol' son of Ephraim. But I had a friend growing up who fit the bill, a fact his self-righteous mother used to share with the entire ward at least once each year during open mic Sunday. My friend thought it was a cool distinction, but now that his age and professional accomplishments could set him in the SP's gun sights, I bet the prospect of bishoping without help would have him crapping in his G's.

[SoCalCoug]

How much time does your brother-in-law spend with his calling outside of the Sunday meetings he goes to?

I believe several evenings a week. With work (which is extremely time-consuming) and bishopric stuff, my sister-in-law is pretty much left with the kids.

This kind of brings up another issue - not taking into account when someone in a time-consuming, leadership calling already has an overwhelming, time-consuming job.

[jay santos]

Isn't it the unwritten rule that you accept whatever calling you are given? You can't simply say "no" to the Lord, can you?

I've done it.

All you have to do is do it once and it takes you off the bishop track, and you never have to do it again.

[fusnik]

I agree with Jay, just say no. I think we as members could do a much better job at saying no at callings we don't think we can fulfill. Ill use myself as an example. Its not uncommon for me and the wifey to work in excess of 60 hours a week, we have no kids (probably soon), and contemplating further schooling. How could I or her serve in any calling with significant time commitments? I would be sacrificing my family to serve people that don't comprise my immediate family construct. Pass.

[scottie]

Or an Elder's Quorum president or Relief Society president?

Here's the reason I ask:

My brother-in-law is a counselor in his bishopric. He is also in oral surgery residency in the army, and he and his wife have 2 kids, 5 and 2, with another due in April. His wife was crying to my wife the other day about how little he's home with his work and school responsibilities, essentially leaving her to care for the kids by herself, day and night. It was overwhelming, and they just called her to be a laurel advisor, as well.

We recently had a bishopric change, and a young father was put in as a counselor. They have four or five young children, including a 7-month-old. He was released about 8 months ago as Elder's Quorum President and has been Executive Secretary since then. It happened really quickly, and rather than being happy and excited at the new opportunity, his wife was crying because she realized she was going to see him far less over the next few years, and she was going to be on her own with all those little kids.

Why do we do that to people? Yes, I understand that whole thing about Joseph Smith in Liberty jail and how adversity makes us stronger, but holy crap, why do we do that to ourselves? If being in a bishopric is such an overwhelming responsibility, why not put a couple more guys in there to share the load, and let the bishopric's kids have a father?

I mean, we're all about having our home be our greatest responsibility, and we preach about how children need a father and a mother in the home, and then take some of the most capable men and make them do church work every weeknight evening and all day Sunday, so that their kids hardly see them, and turn their wives into single moms.

It's a contradictory message, and I don't know why the church does that to people. I know it's not as big of an issue when you've got older men in the bishopric, but when you start taking young fathers with young children out of the home, aren't you fostering the same problems that we claim exist when there's only one parent in the home?

Exact scenario as one of my mission buddies (anesthesiology residency, not in the army though), and his marriage ended in divorce. He was released as counselor after about a year, which was ~6 months before his marital separation. Of course his church calling wasn't the only cause of the divorce, but never being home was the #1 cause and his bishopric calling contributed to that.

[beelzebabette]

It's a contradictory message, and I don't know why the church does that to people. I know it's not as big of an issue when you've got older men in the bishopric, but when you start taking young fathers with young children out of the home, aren't you fostering the same problems that we claim exist when there's only one parent in the home?

<- In the choir.

[RC Vikings]

A bishop should be aware of the demands on his councilors time at home and make adjustments for that. Cutting out SS, tithing settlement and Saturday night Stake conference would save 80 hours right their. Cut bishopric meeting down to 30 minutes and PEC down to 30 and you save another 34 hours.

[jay santos]

Where do four hour primary presidency meetings fit in this?

I think it's different for the guy, though. The four hour presidency meetings are four hours where I can eat junk food and watch whatever I want. "Your brother hit you? What do you want me to do about it? Shh this is a big 3rd down play."

[SoCalCoug]

Exact scenario as one of my mission buddies (anesthesiology residency, not in the army though), and his marriage ended in divorce. He was released as counselor after about a year, which was ~6 months before his marital separation. Of course his church calling wasn't the only cause of the divorce, but never being home was the #1 cause and his bishopric calling contributed to that.

I think at the very least, an extra counselor or two would help ease the bishop's burden, as well. Our bishop is a partner in a law firm and father of a bunch of children, some of whom are still quite young (I think he even has a preschooler or two). I can't imagine he gets to spend a lot of time with his kids. Isn't that the most important thing we believe in as church members?

[fusnik]

PEC = waste. 85% of ward council = waste. Welfare Committee = should occur during SS. Ward missionary meeting = should happen via email. Tithing settlement = waste. Any stake training = waste. In fact I move to remove the stake, what purpose does the stake even have other than to take 15% of ward budgets? You should all write a letter to add me as a write in candidate next apostle election.

[Jacob]

Isn't it the unwritten rule that you accept whatever calling you are given? You can't simply say "no" to the Lord, can you?

But we are also told that family comes before church, and obviously church callings. Since only the individual can say what burden the calling is placing on his family, he ought to be the one to say "This is too much."

It is not expedient that a man should run faster than he is able. And all that.

To get around saying "no" to the Lord, the individual should probably made a decision as to whether it is too much for his family. Once he has decided, he can pray. That way, he is most likely to receive the answer he desires.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

In my ward they just called a 3rd counselor to the primary. So maybe you are onto something.

[fusnik]

Jacob that's great in theory but in reality it doesn't happen that way. If you are called to a Bishopric, EQP, Stake level calling typically you get called in, short worthiness interview, followed by interview with spouse, followed by interview with both you and spouse with calling being extended. (In my stake growing up they did it this way, my stake now they do the same way). How is someone suppose to pray about the calling when it gets thrust on them like this? You going to tell the SP who is saying, this calling is from the Lord, 'give me a couple days to see how this will impact my family.' You and 99% of people will say yes and go forward in faith. I think with all callings the calling extended, and a week later the candidate says yes or no. Gives everbody involved due process.