Homeland

[Surfah]

[SteelBlue]

I thought of you during the episode. I'm in your camp after that one.

[fusnik]

I thought of you during the episode. I'm in your camp after that one.

I was disappointed.

Nazir really going to kidnap Carrie?
No audio or visual recording devices in the VPs office?
Tracking of text messaging, hello Brody use your brain.

This episode could have been accomplished sans the kidnapping. I know what they are trying to do, show that there are people that are moles in the company, (hello random character showing up again last night, think he's a mole?) above Saul, Estes, etc.

I like how they gave Brody his revenge but think they could have done it in a better fashion. The weakest episode ever in the history of this series.

[Surfah]

I hate this effing show. What could have been.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I hate this effing show. What could have been.

I am still enjoying it. Sure, you have to suspend disbelief (just like with Dexter) but I thought there were some nice plot twists in the finale.

[MarkGrace]

I am still enjoying it. Sure, you have to suspend disbelief (just like with Dexter) but I thought there were some nice plot twists in the finale.

Loved it. Great tv.

[Surfah]

Spoiler for Why I hate Homeland:

I've already listed a few inconsistencies as far as tactics go that are just plain absurd. Nazir being able to show up in the US is ridiculous. The equivalent we're led to believe is Bin Laden shaving his beard and hanging out in Eastern PA. Being able to abduct Brody in a helicopter was just dumb. Carrie getting abducted by Nazir was plain silly. Nazir letting Carrie go was just dumb. Nazir being able to kill Walden remotely was flat out ridiculous and impossible (recent exploits have shown vulnerabilities but at a range of 10 feet or so). I have always loved Saul's character but a few things about him have really bugged. First, I don't think he would have been so sloppy in his interview with the imprisoned American woman terrorist. Second, while I have always appreciated his 'by the book', ethical and moral contrast with Carrie, the high horse he mounts over the plan to kill Brody makes me want to bang my head against a brick wall. Really? I know he's supposed to be the kingdingaling of IA but I cannot imagine for a second that he'd be so opposed to a dark ops mission as that. Not after everything he knows and has already experienced with the CIA, particularly abroad. Carrie's relationship with Brody is not only inappropriate but would never be allowed. Not for a second. The whole story now pivoting around their romance is really lame. Brody should have been killed at the end of the first season. Quinn should have taken him out numerous times. His ethical turn might be even worse than Saul's. What was one of the better, true characters was ruined by that change of heart. The guy who kills bad guys suddenly doesn't. Ugh. Another impossibility is Carrie and Brody being able to leave Langley after the explosion. Yeah right. That place would be on lockdown. She is the dumbest fucking person Saul has ever met. I just think this show could have been so much more. And not just if it didn't walk the plausibility tightrope each week.

Grantland had a good piece on the finale. But I am unconvinced.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollywood-prospectus/post/_/id/63908/homeland-season-2-episode-12-the-choice

[Jacob]

Spoiler for Why I hate Homeland:

I've already listed a few inconsistencies as far as tactics go that are just plain absurd. Nazir being able to show up in the US is ridiculous. The equivalent we're led to believe is Bin Laden shaving his beard and hanging out in Eastern PA. Being able to abduct Brody in a helicopter was just dumb. Carrie getting abducted by Nazir was plain silly. Nazir letting Carrie go was just dumb. Nazir being able to kill Walden remotely was flat out ridiculous and impossible (recent exploits have shown vulnerabilities but at a range of 10 feet or so). I have always loved Saul's character but a few things about him have really bugged. First, I don't think he would have been so sloppy in his interview with the imprisoned American woman terrorist. Second, while I have always appreciated his 'by the book', ethical and moral contrast with Carrie, the high horse he mounts over the plan to kill Brody makes me want to bang my head against a brick wall. Really? I know he's supposed to be the kingdingaling of IA but I cannot imagine for a second that he'd be so opposed to a dark ops mission as that. Not after everything he knows and has already experienced with the CIA, particularly abroad. Carrie's relationship with Brody is not only inappropriate but would never be allowed. Not for a second. The whole story now pivoting around their romance is really lame. Brody should have been killed at the end of the first season. Quinn should have taken him out numerous times. His ethical turn might be even worse than Saul's. What was one of the better, true characters was ruined by that change of heart. The guy who kills bad guys suddenly doesn't. Ugh. Another impossibility is Carrie and Brody being able to leave Langley after the explosion. Yeah right. That place would be on lockdown. She is the dumbest fucking person Saul has ever met. I just think this show could have been so much more. And not just if it didn't walk the plausibility tightrope each week.

Grantland had a good piece on the finale. But I am unconvinced.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollyw...-12-the-choice

I agree with a lot of that. But it was still good TV. Although I will be very disappointed if Carrie is not locked up in episode one next season.
I think most shows run too long. This one looks like it should have been a 2 season show.

[MarkGrace]

I agree with a lot of that. But it was still good TV. Although I will be very disappointed if Carrie is not locked up in episode one next season.
I think most shows run too long. This one looks like it should have been a 2 season show.

I'm not going to read all of that because it I know the gist of it -- it's surfah having his hurt locker moment. There are a million ridiculous stretches in the show, but I agree, good tv and fun show.

[Flystripper]

Theories on who is the CIA mole. I think this one is interesting:

Spoiler for Homeland conspiracy theories:

Saul is quite possibly dirty:

1. Earlier in the season he tied up a loose end when he left his glasses in the interview room so an imprisoned terrorist could kill herself.

2. If you know who will be at the memorial service, you know you ascend to the top of the CIA, a position which may be more powerful than the Presidency.

3. In his interaction with Carrie he offers her a head post that Estes would never go along with and she says as much....his response "don't worry about Estes" or something to that effect.

4. He doesn't drop the smartest dumb person line until Carrie declines to go with him to see off Nazir's body, thereby sentencing herself to death.

5. I know many people may have had the confession video, but we know for sure that he did, and his insistence on keeping Brody alive as cover is key.

6. It's not a coincidence that he asked forensics to check out the c4 to ensure it was the same c4 from the news crew plot, thus putting a nice little bow on the whole thing.

7. As a bonus, he gets his wife back as a result of all of this.

[Jacob]

Theories on who is the CIA mole. I think this one is interesting:

Spoiler for Homeland conspiracy theories:

Saul is quite possibly dirty:

1. Earlier in the season he tied up a loose end when he left his glasses in the interview room so an imprisoned terrorist could kill herself.

2. If you know who will be at the memorial service, you know you ascend to the top of the CIA, a position which may be more powerful than the Presidency.

3. In his interaction with Carrie he offers her a head post that Estes would never go along with and she says as much....his response "don't worry about Estes" or something to that effect.

4. He doesn't drop the smartest dumb person line until Carrie declines to go with him to see off Nazir's body, thereby sentencing herself to death.

5. I know many people may have had the confession video, but we know for sure that he did, and his insistence on keeping Brody alive as cover is key.

6. It's not a coincidence that he asked forensics to check out the c4 to ensure it was the same c4 from the news crew plot, thus putting a nice little bow on the whole thing.

7. As a bonus, he gets his wife back as a result of all of this.

That seems like a huge stretch and, if it were true, would destroy any remaining credibility the show has.

[Flystripper]

That seems like a huge stretch and, if it were true, would destroy any remaining credibility the show has.

disagree

[Jacob]

disagree

To be more specific:

Spoiler for spoiler:

Saul is quite possibly dirty:

1. Earlier in the season he tied up a loose end when he left his glasses in the interview room so an imprisoned terrorist could kill herself.

2. If you know who will be at the memorial service, you know you ascend to the top of the CIA, a position which may be more powerful than the Presidency. (there is no reason to think Saul assigned himself to the burial at sea)

3. In his interaction with Carrie he offers her a head post that Estes would never go along with and she says as much....his response "don't worry about Estes" or something to that effect. (His response was that "Estes owes me." Much different than your implication considering what just went on between the 2).

4. He doesn't drop the smartest dumb person line until Carrie declines to go with him to see off Nazir's body, thereby sentencing herself to death. (He drops it upon learning that Carrie is going to try to life her life as Brody's lover, unrelated to the burial at sea).

5. I know many people may have had the confession video, but we know for sure that he did, and his insistence on keeping Brody alive as cover is key. (Much easier to believe that he disagrees with assassinating a sitting US Congressman and his empathy towards Brody's capivity and apparent reversal. But as you admited, any number of foreign terrorists had a copy of that video as proved by the fact that it was a lower lever operative that Saul stole it from in the first place.)

6. It's not a coincidence that he asked forensics to check out the c4 to ensure it was the same c4 from the news crew plot, thus putting a nice little bow on the whole thing. (Of course it is not coincidence. It is what any competent person would have thought, right?)

7. As a bonus, he gets his wife back as a result of all of this. (That was part of his end game? Seriously? )

[Flystripper]

To be more specific:

Spoiler for spoiler:

Saul is quite possibly dirty:

1. Earlier in the season he tied up a loose end when he left his glasses in the interview room so an imprisoned terrorist could kill herself.

2. If you know who will be at the memorial service, you know you ascend to the top of the CIA, a position which may be more powerful than the Presidency. (there is no reason to think Saul assigned himself to the burial at sea)

3. In his interaction with Carrie he offers her a head post that Estes would never go along with and she says as much....his response "don't worry about Estes" or something to that effect. (His response was that "Estes owes me." Much different than your implication considering what just went on between the 2).

4. He doesn't drop the smartest dumb person line until Carrie declines to go with him to see off Nazir's body, thereby sentencing herself to death. (He drops it upon learning that Carrie is going to try to life her life as Brody's lover, unrelated to the burial at sea).

5. I know many people may have had the confession video, but we know for sure that he did, and his insistence on keeping Brody alive as cover is key. (Much easier to believe that he disagrees with assassinating a sitting US Congressman and his empathy towards Brody's capivity and apparent reversal. But as you admited, any number of foreign terrorists had a copy of that video as proved by the fact that it was a lower lever operative that Saul stole it from in the first place.)

6. It's not a coincidence that he asked forensics to check out the c4 to ensure it was the same c4 from the news crew plot, thus putting a nice little bow on the whole thing. (Of course it is not coincidence. It is what any competent person would have thought, right?)

7. As a bonus, he gets his wife back as a result of all of this. (That was part of his end game? Seriously? )

Not my theories but I don't think they are as easily dismissed as you claim.

[MarkGrace]

That seems like a huge stretch and, if it were true, would destroy any remaining credibility the show has.

I would be really bummed if Saul ended up dirty. Absolutely love that character.