6th place and going to the Veg: BYU vs Utah bowl game thread.

[Donuthole]

One coaching decision I really didn't like was the low percentage pass on that 3rd and 1 in the first half.

There was one in the second half. Third and 1 and we run three deep routes.

[YOhio]

This bullshit about "coming out flat" is obnoxious and ignorant.

But do you at least admit that my definition of 'coming out flat' made sense?

[scottie]

Yeah, I've heard that from a few Utes so far, but based on the few passes Wilson did throw in this game, I'm not buying it.

Based on which passes, and what aren't you buying? It was 35-0 with about 5 mins still left to go in the first qtr.

Edit: Unless you mean the fact that he threw any passes at all after that lead, but that would be silly -- going conservative doesn't mean running the ball on every down.

[jay santos]

But do you at least admit that my definition of 'coming out flat' made sense?

Yes, thanks for the clarity.

In the past, Utah teams were known for jumping around like undisciplined maniacs, and BYU had the reputation for not showing emotion like this. BYU fans used to always complain about our players "coming out flat", presumably because we didn't do the chicken dance or throat slash after every play. I think this same kind of thought is coming through in some fans' take on this "coming out flat" thing. There's a lot at stake in these games, and I never have thought lack of motivation or lack of intensity was a factor, and I didn't yesterday.

[San Juan Sun]

First fumble was due to Tanner trying to do too much. First INT was a flukey tipped ball on a questionable PI call. We had a fumbled QB-RB exchange in there. Another INT due to tipped ball. Can't remember the other one.

I would put one criticism on the coaching staff on this. We probably were not prepared for their pass rush. But the result of that was extremely flukey. Mangum should have been prepped that this will be a long game that will likely be a defensive struggle and not to try to do too much. But Mangum's an aggressive and inexperienced QB. Sometimes the school of hard knocks are the only place you learn these things.

This bullshit about "coming out flat" is obnoxious and ignorant.

Fumble #1 - Utah generates pressure forcing Tanner to roll to his left. Tanner probably should have thrown ball away, but Utah gets the credit for excellent pass rush.
INT #1 - maybe PI but really just a nice play by CB to tip pass
INT #2 - Anae calls Houk to the flat on the short side of the field, forcing Tanner into a narrow window. Utah DE makes
great play to tip the ball
Fumble #2 - Squally, with zero reps, fumbles. Of course

Bottom line, that's Utah making plays, drive after drive and years after year.

[jay santos]

Based on which passes, and what aren't you buying? It was 35-0 with about 5 mins still left to go in the first qtr.

Edit: Unless you mean the fact that he threw any passes at all after that lead, but that would be silly -- going conservative doesn't mean running the ball on every down.

What I mean is that Travis Wilson passed the ball enough enough yesterday to reconfirm my opinion that he sucks. And I highly doubt the lack of offense you showed for 3.5 quarters was due to tightening up the play book.

[The_Douger]

At some point, it's a lack of preparation. Whether that's us not being prepared for the pass rush, or the coaches not emphasizing ball security, or BYU players coming out jittery the results speak towards Utah coaches preparing their players for the game over and over, and BYU shitting the bed over and over. That's coaching. If yesterday was the only game we'd come out and had multiple turnovers, it would be one thing, but Utah beats us on turnovers every single year. Instead of having some quick hitting plays and easy throws, it's 4 guys on long developing routes down the field every play. That's coaching and that's preparation.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Fumble #1 - Utah generates pressure forcing Tanner to roll to his left. Tanner probably should have thrown ball away, but Utah gets the credit for excellent pass rush.
INT #1 - maybe PI but really just a nice play by CB to tip pass
INT #2 - Anae calls Houk to the flat on the short side of the field, forcing Tanner into a narrow window. Utah DE makes
great play to tip the ball
Fumble #2 - Squally, with zero reps, fumbles. Of course

Bottom line, that's Utah making plays, drive after drive and years after year.

The other INT was a tip also.

I wonder why Utah stopped making those great plays. It was working so well for them.

Remember a few days ago when everyone here was thrilled to learn that Squally would be playing? I don't recall a single poster concerned about his abilities.

[jay santos]

At some point, it's a lack of preparation. Whether that's us not being prepared for the pass rush, or the coaches not emphasizing ball security, or BYU players coming out jittery the results speak towards Utah coaches preparing their players for the game over and over, and BYU shitting the bed over and over. That's coaching. If yesterday was the only game we'd come out and had multiple turnovers, it would be one thing, but Utah beats us on turnovers every single year. Instead of having some quick hitting plays and easy throws, it's 4 guys on long developing routes down the field every play. That's coaching and that's preparation.

KW as a DC has generally had BYU's number since he started back in the mid 90's. Outside of '96, I think our offense has never performed to our season averages. Even the great 2001 offense was bottled up almost the entire game. Yesterday, even after the first five possessions, nothing came easy. Mangum's stats were actually terrible. Gutty effort by both Mangum and Anae to keep drives along all game long.

[The_Douger]

KW as a DC has generally had BYU's number since he started back in the mid 90's. Outside of '96, I think our offense has never performed to our season averages. Even the great 2001 offense was bottled up almost the entire game. Yesterday, even after the first five possessions, nothing came easy. Mangum's stats were actually terrible. Gutty effort by both Mangum and Anae to keep drives along all game long.

I know he has. Part of it is talent as well, and hopefully Sitake can close that gap. We're not too far off. Need to get stronger on the lines. I'd like a few smaller scat back type of guys out there that you can run underneath. The turnover margin in these losses is telling though, and to me that speaks to the coaches not calling the game well and preparing the team. Bronco's style is to not get too high or low and keep the team consistent, I've never felt he got the team real fired up to play tehse guys over the years.

[San Juan Sun]

Remember a few days ago when everyone here was thrilled to learn that Squally would be playing? I don't recall a single poster concerned about his abilities.

That's the problem with Squally. How is going to get game experience without getting into the game?

[YOhio]

Remember a few days ago when everyone here was thrilled to learn that Squally would be playing? I don't recall a single poster concerned about his abilities.

I was concerned not about his abilities but rather about putting someone completely untested in such an important game. I just didn't say that though.

[All-American]

I know he has. Part of it is talent as well, and hopefully Sitake can close that gap. We're not too far off. Need to get stronger on the lines. I'd like a few smaller scat back type of guys out there that you can run underneath. The turnover margin in these losses is telling though, and to me that speaks to the coaches not calling the game well and preparing the team. Bronco's style is to not get too high or low and keep the team consistent, I've never felt he got the team real fired up to play tehse guys over the years.

I kind of agree, but I might say it a bit differently. That even-keeled, "trust your teammates and do your job" approach is hardest to maintain when the stage is big and emotions are high, and especially when things start going awry. I think the real indictment is that they seem to buckle under that pressure instead of standing their ground.

[jay santos]

I know he has. Part of it is talent as well, and hopefully Sitake can close that gap. We're not too far off. Need to get stronger on the lines. I'd like a few smaller scat back type of guys out there that you can run underneath. The turnover margin in these losses is telling though, and to me that speaks to the coaches not calling the game well and preparing the team. Bronco's style is to not get too high or low and keep the team consistent, I've never felt he got the team real fired up to play tehse guys over the years.

I don't view this as Bronco vs KW or in the future Sitake vs KW. I view it as Chow, Crowton, Reynolds, Anae vs KW. KW understands the BYU offense and how to defend it probably better than anyone in the world. I hope we continue forward with the same offense. If we do, I suspect in games against Utah we will still struggle on O a little bit. We used to have more talent. Now they have more talent. I doubt if that's going to change anytime soon.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

How many near interceptions did Mangum throw in the 2nd half? There seemed to be a lot defenders in the passing lanes on a lot of those plays.