The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[byu71]

I think this argument can be settled by asking one simple question:

Which team is headed to a BCS conference?

LOL The real question is why do Ute fans feel so defensive about the fact BYU draws better. Like you said, you are going to the BCS. So what if you got asked out even though another guy in the class is more buff. Maybe you have a sweet spirit and he doesn't.

[myboynoah]

Don't be jealous because Utah will now be hanging out all day with babes online. I'll bring you your chapstick if you need it.

You've changed, IPU. You've gone all BCS on us.

[YOhio]

Don't be jealous because Utah will now be hanging out all day with babes online. I'll bring you your chapstick if you need it.

It's definitely not jealousy, though I do note a marked change in your attitude towards the BCS. The argument as I understand is whether or not BYU has a broader national appeal than Utah. It's a stupid argument. Pointless and boring. But that's what happens on sports message boards in the offseason. But your statement that the argument is settled by determining which team has been invited to a BCS conference is actually irrelevant to the topic at hand. As Seattle Ute and others have pointed out, the invite was extended because of the structure and culture of the University as well as the fine quality of the athletic program. At no point has anyone argued that it was extended because of the broad national appeal of the University of Utah, except in this thread by you. Because you're a goober.

[il Padrino Ute]

LOL The real question is why do Ute fans feel so defensive about the fact BYU draws better. Like you said, you are going to the BCS. So what if you got asked out even though another guy in the class is more buff. Maybe you have a sweet spirit and he doesn't.

You ask a good question. I can't answer for my fellow Utes, but I know BYU draws better. It's no big deal.

I honestly think that Utah and Colo both got invited for one reason only - to be able to have a conference championship game. Utah wasn't the first choice, but that's ok. There can only be one first choice, and odds were against pretty much every team in the country but Texas being that first choice. Even if Utah was the 5th or 6th choice, the PAC10 asked.

It's better to be asked to join, isn't it?

[LA Ute]

LOL The real question is why do Ute fans feel so defensive about the fact BYU draws better. Like you said, you are going to the BCS. So what if you got asked out even though another guy in the class is more buff. Maybe you have a sweet spirit and he doesn't.

I don't care if BYU draws better. As I've said, I'm increasingly curious about why you BYU fans can't come up with any evidence. The data on TV ratings are clear: BYU doesn't draw. As for attendance, you guys insist you put fannies in seats - other than in LES. Why?

[il Padrino Ute]

It's definitely not jealousy, though I do note a marked change in your attitude towards the BCS. The argument as I understand is whether or not BYU has a broader national appeal than Utah. It's a stupid argument. Pointless and boring. But that's what happens on sports message boards in the offseason. But your statement that the argument is settled by determining which team has been invited to a BCS conference is actually irrelevant to the topic at hand. As Seattle Ute and others have pointed out, the invite was extended because of the structure and culture of the University as well as the fine quality of the athletic program. At no point has anyone argued that it was extended because of the broad national appeal of the University of Utah, except in this thread by you. Because you're a goober.

Perhaps you could show the post where I said Utah has a broader national appeal than BYU. All I said was that Utah got the invite.

But I appreciate you calling me out, as it confirms that you are obsessed with me.

[byu71]

You ask a good question. I can't answer for my fellow Utes, but I know BYU draws better. It's no big deal.

I honestly think that Utah and Colo both got invited for one reason only - to be able to have a conference championship game. Utah wasn't the first choice, but that's ok. There can only be one first choice, and odds were against pretty much every team in the country but Texas being that first choice. Even if Utah was the 5th or 6th choice, the PAC10 asked.

It's better to be asked to join, isn't it?

Yes it is. Congrats. BYU is like the beautiful girl who has a mustache and refuses to take care of it. She would rather call everyone else shallow.

[byu71]

I don't care if BYU draws better. As I've said, I'm increasingly curious about why you BYU fans can't come up with any evidence. The data on TV ratings are clear: BYU doesn't draw. As for attendance, you guys insist you put fannies in seats - other than in LES. Why?

You can make stats say anything you want, you know that. Take for instance the piss poor effort the guy made over on Ute fans. Be honest, in the MWC BYU and Utah tie for the championship. Who does the Vegas bowl or any bowl invite.

[YOhio]

But I appreciate you calling me out, as it confirms that you are obsessed with me.

Yeah, that makes no sense. How does it confirm that? Does that mean that anybody who responds to an Il Pad post is obsessed with you?

[il Padrino Ute]

Yeah, that makes no sense. How does it confirm that? Does that mean that anybody who responds to an Il Pad post is obsessed with you?

No, just you.

[LA Ute]

You can make stats say anything you want, you know that. Take for instance the piss poor effort the guy made over on Ute fans. Be honest, in the MWC BYU and Utah tie for the championship. Who does the Vegas bowl or any bowl invite.

Hey, the guy at UteFans at least made an effort, which is more than I've seen any BYU fan do here.

I'll stipulate: BYU outdraws Utah in venues where there's a Mormon population. That's not what I'm arguing about, though. I am not claiming anything about Utah. BYU fans (and guys like Gordon Monson and that Deseret News writer - Rock? Robinson?) claim BYU has a big national following and is therefore a great catch for a BCS conference. I just want to see you guys support that claim somehow.

[byu71]

Hey, the guy at UteFans at least made an effort, which is more than I've seen any BYU fan do here.

I'll stipulate: BYU outdraws Utah in venues where there's a Mormon population. That's not what I'm arguing about, though. I am not claiming anything about Utah. BYU fans (and guys like Gordon Monson and that Deseret News writer - Rock? Robinson?) claim BYU has a big national following and is therefore a great catch for a BCS conference. I just want to see you guys support that claim somehow.

Oh, I thought we were debating the draw and national draw of BYU vs Utah. If it is BYU vs ND, I vote ND.

If it is BYU vs Utah or any other non BCS school and the decision was on national draw alone, yea BYU is a great catch. Heck, I had a cabbie in Chicago ask if the Y on my hat stood for BYU. He told me he loved watching BYU football because it was so entertaining. I will admit this was just at the start of the Crowton era. He may have changed his mind since.

[myboynoah]

Hey, the guy at UteFans at least made an effort, which is more than I've seen any BYU fan do here.

I'll stipulate: BYU outdraws Utah in venues where there's a Mormon population. That's not what I'm arguing about, though. I am not claiming anything about Utah. BYU fans (and guys like Gordon Monson and that Deseret News writer - Rock? Robinson?) claim BYU has a big national following and is therefore a great catch for a BCS conference. I just want to see you guys support that claim somehow.

What exactly are these BYU fans claiming in terms of national appeal? I think most have been looking at the Pac-10 footprint (responding to the snub of BYU), which I guess you are now excluding as "where there's a Mormon population." I see you now agree that BYU puts more butts in seats in that footprint.

So, outside that footprint, say east of the Rockies, that's hard to say. I don't know if there is any hard data upon which to draw, or if it does exist, people here wouldn't have access to it. So I doubt anyone will be able to answer your question. But "national appeal" is a very relative label. I doubt any BYU Fan thinks BYU's national appeal approaches that of many BSC programs (ND, Michigan, Texas, etc.). Of course it doesn't. But I don't think that is the comparison.

If BYU is compared to Utah, it doesn't take much of a leap to assume that if the school draws better in the Mormon footprint, it is likely to draw better outside that footprint as well. Just compare the demographics of the graduating classes.

[Clark Addison]

Data, statman, data. Not lore.

That's a great post (the one on UF.N). I think my favorite part was the use, as a major piece of evidence that BYU doesn't draw fans, the fact that San Jose State drew more fans at Stanford than BYU in 2004. This stellar analysis neglected to account for three minor things:

A) The SJSU game was the home and season opener for Stanford
B) BYU was, in 2004, at the tailend of their worst stretch of football in over 30 years.
C) And, oh yeah, distance from SJSU to Stanford: 24 miles. Distance from BYU to Stanford, 808 miles. But I'm sure that couldn't have any impact on attendance.

[LA Ute]

That's a great post (the one on UF.N). I think my favorite part was the use, as a major piece of evidence that BYU doesn't draw fans, the fact that San Jose State drew more fans at Stanford than BYU in 2004. This stellar analysis neglected to account for three minor things:

A) The SJSU game was the home and season opener for Stanford
B) BYU was, in 2004, at the tailend of their worst stretch of football in over 30 years.
C) And, oh yeah, distance from SJSU to Stanford: 24 miles. Distance from BYU to Stanford, 808 miles. But I'm sure that couldn't have any impact on attendance.

I don't say his data are perfect, just that at least he tried. BTW, similar excuses apply to the low turnout for the 2006 Utah-UCLA game. Anyway, 71 and MBN understand me, that's all I need.