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Originally posted by jay santos
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There are other reasons than money to have a CCG. Historically you've needed one to get two teams in the BCS, more essential now that two more conferences will have a CCG. Plus if either team is in the hunt for the BCS title then an extra game against a top opponent could put them over the edge. The PAC 10 was in the same boat with regards to money and splitting it more ways but expanded anyway even though UU and CU don't grow the pot enough to justify it monetarily. -
This is the problem the Pac 10 is going to run into. Basically for it to pencil out, they'd have to increase the pie to $240M- CU and Utah aren't going to do that (and this is why the Cal AD according to BerkelyCoug is ticked at Larry Scott).Originally posted by jay santos View Post
Does BYU + Louisville pull that in for the Big 12? I'm not totally sure. BYU is a bigger fish than Utah or CU, but I'm not sure where Louisville ranks. But if rumors are correct, BYU is offering to accept a significantly lower revenue share for the first 2-3 years after admission to the Big 12. Louisville adds a lot in basketball and it opens up a new area of the country for recruiting, so they may be willing to bet that Louisville can pull its own weight in the future.Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”Comment
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It's interesting to watch these ideas being accepted uncritically and very quickly becoming deeply embedded in BYU lore.Originally posted by Color Me Badd Fan View Post“There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
― W.H. Auden
"God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
-- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-ExuperyComment
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More likely than not, there are plenty of people who aren't happy with adding Utah and CU. Do you really think those two schools will add a commensurate amount to the pie compared with how much they'll take away? As Jay pointed out, if the pie is already at 200M, does the inclusion of Utah and CU give the Pac 10 the bargaining power to demand and extra 30M? I've heard the championship game actually only delivers about $10M. The big prizes in the Pac 10 are SoCal, the Bay Area, Phoenix and Seattle. They've now added one team that basically plays second fiddle to another college team in its own market (which will probably change with BCS conference affiliation) and another team that no one really cares much about in its own market. I just don't see how they pull their own weight.Originally posted by LA Ute View PostPart of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”Comment
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Is the Utah athletic program a bigger fish than BYU's as far as money goes? Could you really argue that with a straight face? I realize that TV ratings from a couple bowl games prove to be inconclusive (after all, the opponent has something to do with that, don't they?), but there are other things to look at. Utah struggles to fill its own smaller stadium yet BYU routinely fills its larger stadium. BYU vs. UCLA drew 72k fans in 2007. Utah vs. UCLA drew 59k fans in 2006. Yeah I know that attendance smack is weak as far as who actually has the better team in a given year, but it does provide some evidence as to which school as the better athletic program and alumni base. I find it hard to believe that Utah could ever be considered a bigger fish than BYU from a monetary standpoint, and if George Steinbrenner is to be believed then butts in seats is pretty important.Originally posted by LA Ute View Post
The BCS bowl games and wins is nice. But do you have anything that suggests that Utah will bring in more money than BYU? I think I've been more even-tempered about this whole deal than most of the BYU fans, but I personally can't think of any factor that leads me to the conclusion that Utah will prove to be more profitable to the Pac 10 than BYU.Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”Comment
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I was a bit too terse in my post. I don't disagree with your analysis, but I am no expert. I guess going to 12 gives them their championship game, and someone penciled it all out and decided that would make enough money to justify adding CU and Utah. I'm mainly talking about stories like BerkeleyCoug's, which leave me very skeptical. And I have seen lots of the same kinds of stories from the Ute side -- we have our own lore.Originally posted by Color Me Badd Fan View PostLast edited by LA Ute; 07-01-2010, 05:48 PM.“There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
― W.H. Auden
"God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
-- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-ExuperyComment
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The $20 million is a number that was thrown about by DFW sports radio about 10 years ago when UT fans were bitching about having to play another game (and one year lost to a not-very-good Colorado team, IIRC). They'd get ~$4-$5 million in gate/ticket sales alone, plus sponsorship $$$, plus TV money, which rivals any bowl game but the national championship game (championship games don't face other NCAA football competition - they're usually the only game on in their time-slot). $20 million makes sense. And I've heard $30 million bandied about for the SEC game.Originally posted by jay santos View Post
One thing that you're forgetting in your "$200M/10 > $220M/12" calculation is that if you take BYU, with Utah already gone, you've made it so that the BCS pie doesn't have to be split with another member. The other point is that the grand scheme undoubtedly involves the removal of the Big East from existence - meaning that instead of their being 7 BCS players, the full grand plan of expansion lowers that number to 5.
Expansion is an offensive strategy to defend & then grow BCS $$$ by first eliminating the MWC and then by ridding itself of the Big (L)East. The fact that Boise State shot itself in the foot by leaving the ease of a WAC schedule and now has to at least play and beat TCU every year, is a bonus...Last edited by statman; 07-01-2010, 06:01 PM.Comment
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This is not an issue I ever paid any attention to until the recent conference expansion circus. Over the last few weeks I have been struck by how little evidence there is that BYU is all that, in terms of fannies in seats or eyeballs on television sets. It looks like the two schools are about equal. That's an endless argument but I have seen some pretty compelling data on the Utah side (which I do not want to get into). It's just funny to see how uncritically each side accepts "their" data.Originally posted by Color Me Badd Fan View Post
It's all good. I don't mean to roll another hand grenade into the room!Last edited by LA Ute; 07-01-2010, 06:02 PM.“There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
― W.H. Auden
"God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
-- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-ExuperyComment
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Sorry, but there's no way Utah draws in every PAC 10 city like BYU would. Not even close...Originally posted by LA Ute View PostComment
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“There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
― W.H. Auden
"God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
-- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-ExuperyComment
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That little spew of data was lame at best. Comparing BYU to Notre Dame and Oklahoma? Is the guy saying that you can compare ND and Oklahoma to BYU in an argument about Utah, because Utah is equivalent to them. LOLOriginally posted by LA Ute View Post
Also the Stanford - San Jose St. comparison. Most Utes do realize the two schools are within a half hours distance of each other.
I am dissapointed in you LA. You are far smarter than to get a tingly feeling running down your leg with this comparison as proving Utah draws as well as BYU.
I am a known non-Ute hater. However, arguing BYU doesn't outdraw Utah is, well, silly.Comment
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Yeah LA, that was dissapointing. If that's the best argument out there questioning the assumption, then we can continue safely in our assumption.Originally posted by byu71 View Post
Some BYU-Utah comparisons
At home BYU averages over 64K each week. Can anyone provide the number for Utah?Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!
For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.
Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."
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I think this argument can be settled by asking one simple question:
Which team is headed to a BCS conference?"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill
"I only know what I hear on the news." - Dear LeaderComment
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Don't be jealous because Utah will now be hanging out all day with babes online. I'll bring you your chapstick if you need it.Originally posted by YOhio View Post"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill
"I only know what I hear on the news." - Dear LeaderComment
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