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  • Originally posted by LA Ute View Post
    I don't say his data are perfect, just that at least he tried. BTW, similar excuses apply to the low turnout for the 2006 Utah-UCLA game. Anyway, 71 and MBN understand me, that's all I need.
    No, he didn't try at all. He just tried to find data that would fit his point of view, much like many do on both sides. That doesn't count as trying.

    I would love to see some real data on this, but I haven't seen it from either side yet.

    Comment


    • More on Tuberville's comments from OrangeBloods.com...

      And everyone gets why Texas Tech should be mad. Tech has outperformed A&M in football (the revenue-producing sport that matters in this equation) for a decade. And then, after having its bags packed for the Pac-16 with visions of a $20 million payday and playing in an elite football conference, it wakes up to find itineraries to Ames, Manhattan and Columbia still in its travel file with a payday less than A&M's.

      So there are vocal critics with some skins on the wall who don't think the Big 12 can make it long term. (Tuberville may have only been in the Big 12 for seemingly 10 minutes, but he did have an undefeated season in the MMA of college football - the SEC).

      [...]

      So if there’s anyone who can quiet the squeaky wheels in the Big 12, it’s the television partners. They saved the day once. Now, it’s a matter of how much those partners (or potentially new partners if the Big 12 is willing to open up its cable package for bid in 2011 to suitors such as ABC/ESPN, Fox Sports Net, Comcast, TNT or others), would be willing to pay to make everyone happy ? and quiet down.

      Otherwise, the Big 12’s Squeaky Wheel Hall of Fame may be adding some more members.
      I wonder how the Big 12 is going to add more television partners without a conference championship game.
      "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
      "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
      "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
      GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Clark Addison View Post
        No, he didn't try at all. He just tried to find data that would fit his point of view, much like many do on both sides. That doesn't count as trying.

        I would love to see some real data on this, but I haven't seen it from either side yet.
        I guess that's my point.
        “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
        ― W.H. Auden


        "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
        -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


        "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
        --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

        Comment


        • Originally posted by LA Ute View Post
          I don't say his data are perfect, just that at least he tried. BTW, similar excuses apply to the low turnout for the 2006 Utah-UCLA game. Anyway, 71 and MBN understand me, that's all I need.
          Utah v. UCLA drew 59k in 2006. BYU v. UCLA drew 73k a year later.
          UCLA averaged 64,955 per home game in 2006, and 76,378 in 2007. So Utah was nearly 6k below the average for a home schedule which featured Rice, Stanford, Arizona, Washington State, Oregon State, and USC. BYU was 3k below the average for a home schedule which featured Washington, Notre Dame, No. 12 ranked Cal, No. 9 ranked Oregon, and ASU.
          Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

          There's three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who's got the same first name as a city; and never go near a lady's got a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, everything else is cream cheese. --Coach Finstock

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Donuthole View Post
            UCLA averaged 64,955 per home game in 2006, and 76,378 in 2007. So Utah was nearly 6k below the average for a home schedule which featured Rice, Stanford, Arizona, Washington State, Oregon State, and USC. BYU was 3k below the average for a home schedule which featured Washington, Notre Dame, No. 12 ranked Cal, No. 9 ranked Oregon, and ASU.
            Those are well-known data. If you look around on the various boards, they have been sliced and diced to death and there are persuasive arguments that the numbers are both illuminating and useless.
            “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
            ― W.H. Auden


            "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
            -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


            "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
            --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Ted Nugent View Post
              More on Tuberville's comments from OrangeBloods.com...



              I wonder how the Big 12 is going to add more television partners without a conference championship game.
              What all this is telling me is that the Big 12 is just as big a mess now as it was before.
              "Take it to the Bank"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by LA Ute View Post
                Those are well-known data. If you look around on the various boards, they have been sliced and diced to death and there are persuasive arguments that the numbers are both illuminating or useless.
                Oh, I thought you said you hadn't seen any data which showed that BYU outdraws Utah in attendance at away games. My mistake.
                Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

                There's three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who's got the same first name as a city; and never go near a lady's got a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, everything else is cream cheese. --Coach Finstock

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Donuthole View Post
                  Oh, I thought you said you hadn't seen any data which showed that BYU outdraws Utah in attendance at away games. My mistake.
                  If I said that then I was pretty inarticulate. So maybe it's my mistake.
                  “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
                  ― W.H. Auden


                  "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
                  -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


                  "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
                  --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by LA Ute View Post
                    Those are well-known data. If you look around on the various boards, they have been sliced and diced to death and there are persuasive arguments that the numbers are both illuminating and useless.
                    The reason few are taking you up on this is that:
                    1) short of exit polling, it would tough to prove anything about why differing numbers of fans show up at games.
                    2) Multiple national media sources (including several PAC-10 sources) have claimed that BYU is a bigger draw.
                    and 3) When you're presented with decent data such as DH's, you dismiss it anyway.

                    It's a little like arguing about vaccines causing autism with my crazy cousin-in-law. Or like banging one's head against a wall.

                    EDIT: Forgot one. 4) It's a silly pointless argument, even by your own admission. And yet you keep raising it...
                    At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
                    -Berry Trammel, 12/3/10

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Hot Lunch View Post
                      What all this is telling me is that the Big 12 is just as big a mess now as it was before.
                      It sound like Tuberville is just whining to me. Yes the big 12 has unequal revenue share, but are schools like TT really going to do anything about it? No they aren't, because they have no other options, they need Texas and Texas does not need them so they will go along with what ever Texas says.
                      "Not at the table Carlos"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ERCougar View Post
                        The reason few are taking you up on this is that:
                        1) short of exit polling, it would tough to prove anything about why differing numbers of fans show up at games.
                        2) Multiple national media sources (including several PAC-10 sources) have claimed that BYU is a bigger draw.
                        and 3) When you're presented with decent data such as DH's, you dismiss it anyway.

                        It's a little like arguing about vaccines causing autism with my crazy cousin-in-law. Or like banging one's head against a wall.

                        EDIT: Forgot one. 4) It's a silly pointless argument, even by your own admission. And yet you keep raising it...
                        As I said in the other thread: I don't think Utah brings more fannies to the seats. I've said that over and over. I'm just raising a question about statements like this one by Gordon Monson:

                        BYU, in part by way of the organization that owns it, not only has its reach and can use it, but also wields considerable economic heft by way of its national audience and drawing power. It is a valuable franchise.
                        I'm just wondering if that's simply a commonly-held belief or is based on some decent data. I really doubt there is an answer. If so, Monson and BYU fans should stop making the claim. That's all!
                        “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
                        ― W.H. Auden


                        "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
                        -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


                        "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
                        --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by LA Ute View Post
                          As I said in the other thread: I don't think Utah brings more fannies to the seats. I've said that over and over. I'm just raising a question about statements like this one by Gordon Monson:



                          I'm just wondering if that's simply a commonly-held belief or is based on some decent data. I really doubt there is an answer. If so, Monson and BYU fans should stop making the claim. That's all!
                          WHy do you care if they make the claim? You have admitted that it might be true. You think there may not be good evidecne of this, although there might be. And BYU supporters use this perception as an argument supporting their candidacy for an AQ conference. SO why do you care? Utah got its big payday and has been able to leave its local culture behind, why do you feel it so important to undermine a common perception that even you admit could very well be true?
                          PLesa excuse the tpyos.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by LA Ute View Post
                            As I said in the other thread: I don't think Utah brings more fannies to the seats. I've said that over and over. I'm just raising a question about statements like this one by Gordon Monson:



                            I'm just wondering if that's simply a commonly-held belief or is based on some decent data. I really doubt there is an answer. If so, Monson and BYU fans should stop making the claim. That's all!
                            Why does this claim bug you? It means absolutely nothing, particularly now that the street-walking PAC10 has finally settled on you.

                            And Monson and BYU fans aren't the only ones to make this claim. Do we really need to bring up the PAC 10 outlet sources bemoaning the fact that they had to settle on Utah and CU instead of BYU? Do we need to summon MBN?

                            Even if we don't have the exit polls to prove it, it's not crazy to assume that a university tied to a worldwide religion, that is both larger and has more diffusely spread alumni, would have a larger national following, would bring more butts to the seats and more eyes to TV sets, particularly when the very limited data suggests the same thing.
                            At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
                            -Berry Trammel, 12/3/10

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ERCougar View Post
                              Why does this claim bug you? It means absolutely nothing, particularly now that the street-walking PAC10 has finally settled on you.

                              And Monson and BYU fans aren't the only ones to make this claim. Do we really need to bring up the PAC 10 outlet sources bemoaning the fact that they had to settle on Utah and CU instead of BYU? Do we need to summon MBN?

                              Even if we don't have the exit polls to prove it, it's not crazy to assume that a university tied to a worldwide religion, that is both larger and has more diffusely spread alumni, would have a larger national following, would bring more butts to the seats and more eyes to TV sets, particularly when the very limited data suggests the same thing.
                              The TV data suggests the opposite, but ...
                              “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
                              ― W.H. Auden


                              "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
                              -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


                              "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
                              --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by creekster View Post
                                WHy do you care if they make the claim? You have admitted that it might be true. You think there may not be good evidecne of this, although there might be. And BYU supporters use this perception as an argument supporting their candidacy for an AQ conference. SO why do you care? Utah got its big payday and has been able to leave its local culture behind, why do you feel it so important to undermine a common perception that even you admit could very well be true?
                                Because I think discussions should be based on reality, to the extent possible. If Ute fans were throwing similar claims around indiscriminately, I think you would be asking the same questions. Wouldn't you?

                                (If you choose not to answer, that's OK with me. This horse has beaten to a bloody, dead pulp.)
                                “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
                                ― W.H. Auden


                                "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
                                -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


                                "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
                                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

                                Comment

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