The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[All-American]

There's nothing wrong with saying Ute Indian Tribe.

https://utah.com/culture/utes

Ask the federal courts in Utah and the Tenth Circuit too, who have issued many judicial opinions clear through this year referring to the Ute Indian Tribe.

If the Utes think the drum and feather is racist, I'm sure the U of U will get rid of it. I'm not the one to say; I don't see the Utes saying that it is. Only people here who tell them what's good for them and suggest (without any basis whatsoever) that they're selling out their principles for money are saying that.

Utah does not have a problem like BYU, and posts like yours that just express vituperative denial over the nation's consensus about the Honor Code suggest that creekster's recent statement reaffirming mine that this board is overall intelligent and progressive may be overly optimistic about some of you (as does your resort to "dipshit").

I'm just telling you the way things are. The Big 12 is the least of BYU's worries. The boycotts are going to mount and it's going to be harder and harder to schedule as an independent.

Someone more attuned to the topic of Indian relations might point out the irony in looking to the state and federal government to tell us how we should define an Indian tribe.

[Jeff Lebowski]

There's nothing wrong with saying Ute Indian Tribe.

https://utah.com/culture/utes

Ask the federal courts in Utah and the Tenth Circuit too, who have issued many judicial opinions clear through this year referring to the Ute Indian Tribe.

This is hilarious, given the context. You know what else the courts have consistently upheld? BYU's right to define the honor code however they want as a private institution.

If the Utes think the drum and feather is racist, I'm sure the U of U will get rid of it. I'm not the one to say; I don't see the Utes saying that it is. Only people here who tell them what's good for them and suggest (without any basis whatsoever) that they're selling out their principles for money are saying that.

People telling other people what is good for them. Hmm.... And you don't personally see people complain that it is racist, therefore it isn't racist. OK.

Do you have any idea how annoying you can be sometimes? You keep pounding the same note over and over and over. We get it already. I recall when PAC came up with the perfect metaphor for your posting style. You are like a vuvuzela at a soccer match. A single note, played loudly and incessantly, and obnoxious as hell.

[SeattleUte]

I don't have any opinion on whether the federal designation of the single Ute tribe in the state of Utah as such is right or wrong. (Such designations by the federal government are a practical necessity, however, if you know anything at all about the subject matter, and there is plenty of due process over those designations.). I merely make the point that it's not insensitive or socially unaceptable or a dipshit thing to write "Ute Tribe"--at least today it's not.

Your comparison of my reference to federal law establishing tribe designations to BYU's First Amendment right to exclude or expel gays is what's hilarious. The two have nothing to do with one another. But yes, you are right and it's not surprising. BYU has a Constituional right to fly the schwasticka but it doesn't make it right.

I have no idea what your next to last paragraph even means. But Utah has eliminated every visual reference to Indians or Native Americans except the drum and feather. If the drum and feather were identified as offensive by Utes or the Pac 12 I have no doubt it would scrap that too. Another Pac 12 school changed its nickname from Indians to Cardinal, and I am sure that if the Pac 12 or Utes wanted it too, Utah would change its nickname as well. But so far as I know only you all are complaining about the drum and feather or Utes nickname.

[myboynoah]

I don't have any opinion on whether the federal designation of the single Ute tribe in the state of Utah as such is right or wrong. (Such designations by the federal government are a practical necessity, however, if you know anything at all about the subject matter, and there is plenty of due process over those designations.). I merely make the point that it's not insensitive or socially unaceptable or a dipshit thing to write "Ute Tribe"--at least today it's not.

Your comparison of my reference to federal law establishing tribe designations to BYU's First Amendment right to exclude or expel gays is what's hilarious. The two have nothing to do with one another. But yes, you are right and it's not surprising. BYU has a Constituional right to fly the schwasticka but it doesn't make it right.

I have no idea what your next to last paragraph even means. But Utah has eliminated every visual reference to Indians or Native Americans except the drum and feather. If the drum and feather were identified as offensive by Utes or the Pac 12 I have no doubt it would scrap that too. Another Pac 12 school changed its nickname from Indians to Cardinal, and I am sure that if the Pac 12 or Utes wanted it too, Utah would change its nickname as well. But so far as I know only you all are complaining about the drum and feather or Utes nickname.

FANS_UTAH2011FBBA.jpg

utahthread3.jpg

utah-utes-headdress-buckskins.jpg

[eldiente]

The Big 12 expansion groundswell

The Ute Mountain Ute and Southern Ute Tribes headquartered in Colorado think differently since they were never approached by the University of Utah and its racist fans for permission or consideration.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ute_people



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Uncle Ted]

The Ute Mountain Ute and Southern Ute Tribes headquartered in Colorado think differently since they were never approached by the University of Utah and its racist fans for permission or consideration.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ute_people



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LOL@ Stoopid University of Utah. They only paid off one Ute tribe. The Ute Mountain Utes have lots of money thanks to their casino, oil, etc. They should sue Utah and make them change their name to the turkey buzzards to match their mascot. While they are at it make the state change their name to Deseret in honor of their old friend Brigham.

[Blueintheface]

Damn, I think SU might know something the rest of us don't.

[Crockett]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]7287[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]7288[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]7289[/ATTACH]

Isn't this also cultural appropriation?

[byu71]

Isn't this also cultural appropriation?

Yes, especially at your more enlightened and progressive Universities. I thought Utah would move into that category when they joined the PAC10, but I guess the message hasn't gotten out.

My guess would be these two (who are probably nice young ladies) are LDS and part of the basket of deplorables who haven't quite caught the vision of the new, improved, enlightened Uof U.

[Applejack]

Yes, especially at your more enlightened and progressive Universities. I thought Utah would move into that category when they joined the PAC10, but I guess the message hasn't gotten out.

My guess would be these two (who are probably nice young ladies) are LDS and part of the basket of deplorables who haven't quite caught the vision of the new, improved, enlightened Uof U.

No gs. The native people were much more modest.

[eldiente]

SeattleUte won't like it, but this definition seems to fit him well http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot

[All-American]

I don't have any opinion on whether the federal designation of the single Ute tribe in the state of Utah as such is right or wrong. (Such designations by the federal government are a practical necessity, however, if you know anything at all about the subject matter, and there is plenty of due process over those designations.). I merely make the point that it's not insensitive or socially unaceptable or a dipshit thing to write "Ute Tribe"--at least today it's not.

What luck-- you happen to be speaking to someone who knows anything at all about the subject matter. My last job involved a fierce litigation whose central issue was how the federal government characterized Indian tribes and bands, and you could generally count on the government to be completely out of its element in trying to address from its Washington offices the reality on the ground two and three thousand miles to the west. Hence, the irony in relying on the state and federal government's treatment of Indian tribes. You're absolutely right to distance yourself from that position.

[beefytee]

I think everyone is missing SU's point here. He's not saying that Utah is perfect, but when imperfections come to light they are corrected at the UofU. They can adapt with the times without incident. Whereas BYU needs to be pulled from the dark ages kicking as screaming.

Take for instance sexism at both school. BYU and the Mormon church have a history of sexism that is ingrained into the doctrine and would be difficult to change.

So when it came to light that some people, especially women's groups, had objections to sexist school fight songs, let's see what each school did:

BYU changed their lyrics to be more inclusive sometime between 95-96 while I was on my mission. It was such a non-event that I couldn't find any articles talking about it. The Wikipedia page said it was "sometime in the 1990's" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cougar_Song). So basically they made uneventful changes 20 years ago.

Utah tried to change the lyrics 2 short years ago but was met with such fervent opposition that they had to compromise and offer optional alternative lyrics that were more inclusive but the original sexist lyrics remains and is accepted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_U...9D_controversy

So yeah. From past recent experience, the UofU is definitely more adaptable and accommodating than BYU on issues of inclusion.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Come on, guys. Please. If there are any residual problems with racism, sexism, or cultural insensitivity at the university of utah, it is obviously due to lingering influence of the LDS church, since there are still quite a few church members both employed and attending the university.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

I remember when the soccer thing was in South Africa and those annoying horns were constantly blaring, YouTube added a button that would add the annoying sound to any video. I thought it was amusing.