The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[SeattleUte]

NCAA's official statement on the matter...


http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/...rolina-2016-17

The University of Utah is out for hosting these championship games... The drum and feature is the Utes' sacred symbol of Mother Earth and the University of Utah puts it on underwear!


http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?...-drum.html.csp

I tried to warn you!

I have to say, I'm surprised I have to explain this to such an intelligent and generally progressive group. This is now beyond getting defensive, grousing, and making distasteful analogies. It's time to say sorry, we won't do it anymore and change. And it's not about Utah and Utes. (As this three year old article notes, most of us Ute fans couldn't care less if the school retains the name and the drum and feather, and in my opinion, the school has possibly been overly accommodating. Fine; get rid of it. They're paying money for using a name that doesn't even have trademark protection, nor does the Ute tribe own the drum and feather nor is it offensive. Anyway, this controversy has been resolved, but not because the University of Utah ever had much at risk. It has obligingly yielded to rank opportunism. Probably it was the right thing to do. There's actually a lesson in here for the bigots that run BYU.)

BYU has lost he moral argument. It doesn't matter what BYU fans think. Nobody cares about their defensiveness. It's time for BYU to change, and then all will be forgiven, it's the American way.

I'm still waiting for some gallows humor here pending a new revelation.

[lambdacoug]

I have to say, I'm surprised I have to explain this to such an intelligent and generally progressive group. This is now beyond getting defensive, grousing, and making distasteful analogies. It's time to say sorry, we won't do it anymore and change. And it's not about Utah and Utes. (As this three year old article notes, most of us Ute fans couldn't care less if the school retains the name and the drum and feather, and in my opinion, the school has possibly been overly accommodating. Fine; get rid of it. They're paying money for using a name that doesn't even have trademark protection, nor does the Ute tribe own the drum and feather nor is it offensive. Anyway, this controversy has been resolved, but not because the University of Utah ever had much at risk. It has obligingly yielded to rank opportunism. Probably it was the right thing to do. There's actually a lesson in here for the bigots that run BYU.)

BYU has lost he moral argument. It doesn't matter what BYU fans think. Nobody cares about their defensiveness. It's time for BYU to change, and then all will be forgiven, it's the American way.

I'm still waiting for some gallows humor here pending a new revelation.

Spoken like a true privileged white man.

[SeattleUte]

Spoken like a true privileged white man.

Let me be more succinct. The Ute Tribe currently has no problem with the University of Utah. In the past it expressed concerns, and the University mutually satisfactorily addressed those. In contrast, LGBT are oppressed by BYU and this is resulting in pariah status for BYU. I'm just trying to help you understand what is demonstrably and objectively true. But you'll probably attack the messenger.

[old_gregg]

Let me be more succinct. The Ute Tribe currently has no problem with the University of Utah. In the past it expressed concerns, and the University mutually satisfactorily addressed those. In contrast, LGBT are oppressed by BYU and this is resulting in pariah status for BYU. I'm just trying to help you understand what is demonstrably and objectively true. But you'll probably attack the messenger.

pretty essentialist of you bro

[cougjunkie]

O.M.G. Lebowski and Cardiac, I did not expect this from you of all people. Do you ever think about what your grandchildren will think reading what you post here? Of all the posters here, I did not expect this from you. You two of all the members of this community ought to be celebrating the NCAA's demonstration that collegiate athletics is not about TV and sneaker contracts. But you care more about your football spectatorship. Enjoy your independence! It's going to be for eternity (barring a modern revelation altering the honor code).

Wasn't that long ago, the state Arizona didn't recognize MLK day. I bet you still attended the Fiesta Bowl. Have you no principles? What will you tell your grandkids?

[cougjunkie]

I have to say, I'm surprised I have to explain this to such an intelligent and generally progressive group. This is now beyond getting defensive, grousing, and making distasteful analogies. It's time to say sorry, we won't do it anymore and change. And it's not about Utah and Utes. (As this three year old article notes, most of us Ute fans couldn't care less if the school retains the name and the drum and feather, and in my opinion, the school has possibly been overly accommodating. Fine; get rid of it. They're paying money for using a name that doesn't even have trademark protection, nor does the Ute tribe own the drum and feather nor is it offensive. Anyway, this controversy has been resolved, but not because the University of Utah ever had much at risk. It has obligingly yielded to rank opportunism. Probably it was the right thing to do. There's actually a lesson in here for the bigots that run BYU.)

BYU has lost he moral argument. It doesn't matter what BYU fans think. Nobody cares about their defensiveness. It's time for BYU to change, and then all will be forgiven, it's the American way.

I'm still waiting for some gallows humor here pending a new revelation.

Most LGBT members couldn't care less about college athletics. Sounds like we are in the same boat.

[Moliere]

Let me be more succinct. The Ute Tribe currently has no problem with the University of Utah. In the past it expressed concerns, and the University mutually satisfactorily addressed those.

Addressed those concerns with a pile of cash. It's still racist even if you pay them for the right to use the nickname. In fact, having to pay for them not to get upset supports the fact that it's racist.


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[SeattleUte]

Addressed those concerns with a pile of cash. It's still racist even if you pay them for the right to use the nickname. In fact, having to pay for them not to get upset supports the fact that it's racist.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why don't you put away your paternalism and let the Ute tribe speak for itself.

There's nothing racist about a drum and feather or the name Utes.

[SeattleUte]

Wasn't that long ago, the state Arizona didn't recognize MLK day. I bet you still attended the Fiesta Bowl. Have you no principles? What will you tell your grandkids?

It's been fixed. The good part about BYU's LGBT pickle is that it can be fixed. (That still wouldn't get it into the Big 12; it would have to do more.)

[lambdacoug]

Let me be more succinct. The Ute Tribe currently has no problem with the University of Utah. In the past it expressed concerns, and the University mutually satisfactorily addressed those. In contrast, LGBT are oppressed by BYU and this is resulting in pariah status for BYU. I'm just trying to help you understand what is demonstrably and objectively true. But you'll probably attack the messenger.

Something, something, $$$$

[Jarid in Cedar]

Addressed those concerns with a pile of cash. It's still racist even if you pay them for the right to use the nickname. In fact, having to pay for them not to get upset supports the fact that it's racist.


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I can see why you don't like Funk. SJW's generally clash when not fighting the same fights.

[San Juan Sun]

Why don't you put away your paternalism and let the Ute tribe speak for itself.

There's nothing racist about a drum and feather or the name Utes.

Hey dipshit, you know there isn't one "Ute" tribe, right? Maybe don't lecture people on paternalism when you just lump all Utes into one tribe. And with regard to you not thinking the drum and feather isn't racist, I will only say that it's easy to tell yourself that when you think of Utes monolithically.

[Jeff Lebowski]

You guys should pay off the lgbtqqq groups.

Nicely done.

[creekster]

I have to say, I'm surprised I have to explain this to such an intelligent and generally progressive group. This is now beyond getting defensive, grousing, and making distasteful analogies. It's time to say sorry, we won't do it anymore and change. And it's not about Utah and Utes. (As this three year old article notes, most of us Ute fans couldn't care less if the school retains the name and the drum and feather, and in my opinion, the school has possibly been overly accommodating. Fine; get rid of it. They're paying money for using a name that doesn't even have trademark protection, nor does the Ute tribe own the drum and feather nor is it offensive. Anyway, this controversy has been resolved, but not because the University of Utah ever had much at risk. It has obligingly yielded to rank opportunism. Probably it was the right thing to do. There's actually a lesson in here for the bigots that run BYU.)

BYU has lost he moral argument. It doesn't matter what BYU fans think. Nobody cares about their defensiveness. It's time for BYU to change, and then all will be forgiven, it's the American way.

I'm still waiting for some gallows humor here pending a new revelation.

You don't need to explain anything. As you point out, we are not idiots. We get it. We understand the weighty issues. But we are also sports fans. Believe it or not, not a single person signed up to this site or this thread in order to be berated by your pedantic ramblings. So, let me ask nicely: Go away and stay out of this thread.

[SeattleUte]

Hey dipshit, you know there isn't one "Ute" tribe, right? Maybe don't lecture people on paternalism when you just lump all Utes into one tribe. And with regard to you not thinking the drum and feather isn't racist, I will only say that it's easy to tell yourself that when you think of Utes monolithically.

There's nothing wrong with saying Ute Indian Tribe.

https://utah.com/culture/utes

Ask the federal courts in Utah and the Tenth Circuit too, who have issued many judicial opinions clear through this year referring to the Ute Indian Tribe.

If the Utes think the drum and feather is racist, I'm sure the U of U will get rid of it. I'm not the one to say; I don't see the Utes saying that it is. Only people here who tell them what's good for them and suggest (without any basis whatsoever) that they're selling out their principles for money are saying that.

Utah does not have a problem like BYU, and posts like yours that just express vituperative denial over the nation's consensus about the Honor Code suggest that creekster's recent statement reaffirming mine that this board is overall intelligent and progressive may be overly optimistic about some of you (as does your resort to "dipshit").

I'm just telling you the way things are. The Big 12 is the least of BYU's worries. The boycotts are going to mount and it's going to be harder and harder to schedule as an independent.