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  • Originally posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    NCAA's official statement on the matter...


    http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/...rolina-2016-17

    The University of Utah is out for hosting these championship games... The drum and feature is the Utes' sacred symbol of Mother Earth and the University of Utah puts it on underwear!


    http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?...-drum.html.csp

    I tried to warn you!
    I have to say, I'm surprised I have to explain this to such an intelligent and generally progressive group. This is now beyond getting defensive, grousing, and making distasteful analogies. It's time to say sorry, we won't do it anymore and change. And it's not about Utah and Utes. (As this three year old article notes, most of us Ute fans couldn't care less if the school retains the name and the drum and feather, and in my opinion, the school has possibly been overly accommodating. Fine; get rid of it. They're paying money for using a name that doesn't even have trademark protection, nor does the Ute tribe own the drum and feather nor is it offensive. Anyway, this controversy has been resolved, but not because the University of Utah ever had much at risk. It has obligingly yielded to rank opportunism. Probably it was the right thing to do. There's actually a lesson in here for the bigots that run BYU.)

    BYU has lost he moral argument. It doesn't matter what BYU fans think. Nobody cares about their defensiveness. It's time for BYU to change, and then all will be forgiven, it's the American way.

    I'm still waiting for some gallows humor here pending a new revelation.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

    Comment


    • Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
      I have to say, I'm surprised I have to explain this to such an intelligent and generally progressive group. This is now beyond getting defensive, grousing, and making distasteful analogies. It's time to say sorry, we won't do it anymore and change. And it's not about Utah and Utes. (As this three year old article notes, most of us Ute fans couldn't care less if the school retains the name and the drum and feather, and in my opinion, the school has possibly been overly accommodating. Fine; get rid of it. They're paying money for using a name that doesn't even have trademark protection, nor does the Ute tribe own the drum and feather nor is it offensive. Anyway, this controversy has been resolved, but not because the University of Utah ever had much at risk. It has obligingly yielded to rank opportunism. Probably it was the right thing to do. There's actually a lesson in here for the bigots that run BYU.)

      BYU has lost he moral argument. It doesn't matter what BYU fans think. Nobody cares about their defensiveness. It's time for BYU to change, and then all will be forgiven, it's the American way.

      I'm still waiting for some gallows humor here pending a new revelation.
      Spoken like a true privileged white man.
      Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.
      - Howard Aiken

      Any sufficiently complicated platform contains an ad hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of a functional programming language.
      - Variation on Greenspun's Tenth Rule

      Comment


      • Originally posted by lambdacoug View Post
        Spoken like a true privileged white man.
        Let me be more succinct. The Ute Tribe currently has no problem with the University of Utah. In the past it expressed concerns, and the University mutually satisfactorily addressed those. In contrast, LGBT are oppressed by BYU and this is resulting in pariah status for BYU. I'm just trying to help you understand what is demonstrably and objectively true. But you'll probably attack the messenger.
        When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

        --Jonathan Swift

        Comment


        • Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
          Let me be more succinct. The Ute Tribe currently has no problem with the University of Utah. In the past it expressed concerns, and the University mutually satisfactorily addressed those. In contrast, LGBT are oppressed by BYU and this is resulting in pariah status for BYU. I'm just trying to help you understand what is demonstrably and objectively true. But you'll probably attack the messenger.
          pretty essentialist of you bro
          Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
            O.M.G. Lebowski and Cardiac, I did not expect this from you of all people. Do you ever think about what your grandchildren will think reading what you post here? Of all the posters here, I did not expect this from you. You two of all the members of this community ought to be celebrating the NCAA's demonstration that collegiate athletics is not about TV and sneaker contracts. But you care more about your football spectatorship. Enjoy your independence! It's going to be for eternity (barring a modern revelation altering the honor code).
            Wasn't that long ago, the state Arizona didn't recognize MLK day. I bet you still attended the Fiesta Bowl. Have you no principles? What will you tell your grandkids?
            *Banned*

            Comment


            • Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
              I have to say, I'm surprised I have to explain this to such an intelligent and generally progressive group. This is now beyond getting defensive, grousing, and making distasteful analogies. It's time to say sorry, we won't do it anymore and change. And it's not about Utah and Utes. (As this three year old article notes, most of us Ute fans couldn't care less if the school retains the name and the drum and feather, and in my opinion, the school has possibly been overly accommodating. Fine; get rid of it. They're paying money for using a name that doesn't even have trademark protection, nor does the Ute tribe own the drum and feather nor is it offensive. Anyway, this controversy has been resolved, but not because the University of Utah ever had much at risk. It has obligingly yielded to rank opportunism. Probably it was the right thing to do. There's actually a lesson in here for the bigots that run BYU.)

              BYU has lost he moral argument. It doesn't matter what BYU fans think. Nobody cares about their defensiveness. It's time for BYU to change, and then all will be forgiven, it's the American way.

              I'm still waiting for some gallows humor here pending a new revelation.
              Most LGBT members couldn't care less about college athletics. Sounds like we are in the same boat.
              *Banned*

              Comment


              • Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
                Let me be more succinct. The Ute Tribe currently has no problem with the University of Utah. In the past it expressed concerns, and the University mutually satisfactorily addressed those.
                Addressed those concerns with a pile of cash. It's still racist even if you pay them for the right to use the nickname. In fact, having to pay for them not to get upset supports the fact that it's racist.


                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                  Addressed those concerns with a pile of cash. It's still racist even if you pay them for the right to use the nickname. In fact, having to pay for them not to get upset supports the fact that it's racist.


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                  Why don't you put away your paternalism and let the Ute tribe speak for itself.

                  There's nothing racist about a drum and feather or the name Utes.
                  When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

                  --Jonathan Swift

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by cougjunkie View Post
                    Wasn't that long ago, the state Arizona didn't recognize MLK day. I bet you still attended the Fiesta Bowl. Have you no principles? What will you tell your grandkids?
                    It's been fixed. The good part about BYU's LGBT pickle is that it can be fixed. (That still wouldn't get it into the Big 12; it would have to do more.)
                    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

                    --Jonathan Swift

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
                      Let me be more succinct. The Ute Tribe currently has no problem with the University of Utah. In the past it expressed concerns, and the University mutually satisfactorily addressed those. In contrast, LGBT are oppressed by BYU and this is resulting in pariah status for BYU. I'm just trying to help you understand what is demonstrably and objectively true. But you'll probably attack the messenger.
                      Something, something, $$$$
                      Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.
                      - Howard Aiken

                      Any sufficiently complicated platform contains an ad hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of a functional programming language.
                      - Variation on Greenspun's Tenth Rule

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                        Addressed those concerns with a pile of cash. It's still racist even if you pay them for the right to use the nickname. In fact, having to pay for them not to get upset supports the fact that it's racist.


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                        I can see why you don't like Funk. SJW's generally clash when not fighting the same fights.
                        "The first thing I learned upon becoming a head coach after fifteen years as an assistant was the enormous difference between making a suggestion and making a decision."

                        "They talk about the economy this year. Hey, my hairline is in recession, my waistline is in inflation. Altogether, I'm in a depression."

                        "I like to bike. I could beat Lance Armstrong, only because he couldn't pass me if he was behind me."

                        -Rick Majerus

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
                          Why don't you put away your paternalism and let the Ute tribe speak for itself.

                          There's nothing racist about a drum and feather or the name Utes.
                          Hey dipshit, you know there isn't one "Ute" tribe, right? Maybe don't lecture people on paternalism when you just lump all Utes into one tribe. And with regard to you not thinking the drum and feather isn't racist, I will only say that it's easy to tell yourself that when you think of Utes monolithically.
                          "Sure, I fought. I had to fight all my life just to survive. They were all against me. Tried every dirty trick to cut me down, but I beat the bastards and left them in the ditch."

                          - Ty Cobb

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Jarid in Cedar View Post
                            You guys should pay off the lgbtqqq groups.


                            Nicely done.
                            "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                            "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                            "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
                              I have to say, I'm surprised I have to explain this to such an intelligent and generally progressive group. This is now beyond getting defensive, grousing, and making distasteful analogies. It's time to say sorry, we won't do it anymore and change. And it's not about Utah and Utes. (As this three year old article notes, most of us Ute fans couldn't care less if the school retains the name and the drum and feather, and in my opinion, the school has possibly been overly accommodating. Fine; get rid of it. They're paying money for using a name that doesn't even have trademark protection, nor does the Ute tribe own the drum and feather nor is it offensive. Anyway, this controversy has been resolved, but not because the University of Utah ever had much at risk. It has obligingly yielded to rank opportunism. Probably it was the right thing to do. There's actually a lesson in here for the bigots that run BYU.)

                              BYU has lost he moral argument. It doesn't matter what BYU fans think. Nobody cares about their defensiveness. It's time for BYU to change, and then all will be forgiven, it's the American way.

                              I'm still waiting for some gallows humor here pending a new revelation.
                              You don't need to explain anything. As you point out, we are not idiots. We get it. We understand the weighty issues. But we are also sports fans. Believe it or not, not a single person signed up to this site or this thread in order to be berated by your pedantic ramblings. So, let me ask nicely: Go away and stay out of this thread.
                              PLesa excuse the tpyos.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by San Juan Sun View Post
                                Hey dipshit, you know there isn't one "Ute" tribe, right? Maybe don't lecture people on paternalism when you just lump all Utes into one tribe. And with regard to you not thinking the drum and feather isn't racist, I will only say that it's easy to tell yourself that when you think of Utes monolithically.
                                There's nothing wrong with saying Ute Indian Tribe.

                                https://utah.com/culture/utes

                                Ask the federal courts in Utah and the Tenth Circuit too, who have issued many judicial opinions clear through this year referring to the Ute Indian Tribe.

                                If the Utes think the drum and feather is racist, I'm sure the U of U will get rid of it. I'm not the one to say; I don't see the Utes saying that it is. Only people here who tell them what's good for them and suggest (without any basis whatsoever) that they're selling out their principles for money are saying that.

                                Utah does not have a problem like BYU, and posts like yours that just express vituperative denial over the nation's consensus about the Honor Code suggest that creekster's recent statement reaffirming mine that this board is overall intelligent and progressive may be overly optimistic about some of you (as does your resort to "dipshit").

                                I'm just telling you the way things are. The Big 12 is the least of BYU's worries. The boycotts are going to mount and it's going to be harder and harder to schedule as an independent.
                                When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

                                --Jonathan Swift

                                Comment

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