The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[Art Vandelay]

What I'm hearing:

"Everyone discriminates. It's ok to discriminate. Some people discriminate based on academics, and others based on whether people are gay! No big deal!"

And

"Baylor also doesn't accept gay people so it's OK we don't accept gay people!"

And

"The honor code bans face cards too. So no big deal if gays are banned. Black people are ok as of 1978. It's just the way it is. No big deal!"


What I say:

BYU is an anomaly (in a bad way) because Mormons have chosen to:
1) minimize the problems
2) justify evil (or even perceive evil to be good)
3) defend by pointing out that other universities have the same or similar problems

The worst thing any of you can do for BYU is defend the indefensible. You're only harming the future of BYU (and the future of Mormonism) by defending unjust policies. If more people would wake up and speak up, change would be more likely. That's my opinion.

Too Soon

[Moliere]

Isn't there a special Byron Marchant thread for this stuff?


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[creekster]

Isn't there a special Byron Marchant thread for this stuff?


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If be keeps this crap up there's going to be a special category of one just for him.

I'm delayed in o hare and still annoyed by his trolling efforts to coopt this thread.

[falafel]

If be keeps this crap up there's going to be a special category of one just for him.

I'm delayed in o hare and still annoyed by his trolling efforts to coopt this thread.

If we want him to stop posting, someone should just alert his stalker to his posting.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

So now being gay is comparable to JO'ing or watching porn or academic performance or face cards??

Can you see how these comparisons marginalize a huge segment of society?

We are talking about a sexual orientation. Not about grades. Not even about a behavior. To that I suppose some would say that all unmarried BYU students must abstain regardless of orientation, except gay married BYU students would get kicked out just for being gay married. And gay students can't even kiss or hold hands when unmarried.

JO'ing doesn't get you kicked out of school or excommunicated or prevent your children from getting baptized unless they renounce your gay marriage.

If people can't see the difference, they are blind.

And the reason the policy hasn't changed is because the majority of the Mormon masses are willfully blind.

This is about how people who are different are treated.

A much higher percentage of the population JO or play with face cards than are LGBT, however I am willing to concede that probably some of the LGBT community also JO and play with face cards, I agree that group is really in for a rash of shit at BYU.

[Blueintheface]

If we want him to stop posting, someone should just alert his stalker to his posting.

This. Take heed, mods. Out this troll.

[BlueK]

This. Take heed, mods. Out this troll.

I got sucked in. I was really trying to engage in a meaningful conversation until I realized it was like trying to discuss a serious topic with a dog or cat.

Now I think he might be the guy in suspenders who was yelling at Bronco Mendenhall...well, at least the same type of dude. He has no interest in dialogue. He's just here to preach to us and is no different than the craziest of religious nuts, expect for being on the other extreme of the topic.

[Moliere]

I got sucked in. I was really trying to engage in a meaningful conversation until I realized it was like trying to discuss a serious topic with a dog or cat.

BM's view of the world is no different than that of an uber Mormon. To each of them in regards of religion, everything is black and white. There is no gray. It's a comfortable way to live as long as you don't challenge your beliefs.


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[lambdacoug]

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/...e95013447.html

5-3 odds on making it into the Big 12.

I wonder what they're basing that on.

[Art Vandelay]

Gender equality = political correctness gone awry

Racial equality = political correctness gone awry

Equal rights for LGBT = political correctness gone awry

Same bad argument applied in all eras of progress. All I can say is that if these things are all political correctness gone awry, then we need more of it.

Many BYU fans are posting things about how people opposed to BYU's discrimination are "bigots" and that the brethren shouldn't compromise their "standards" and "values." Others imply that the honor code is somehow treating gays and straights equally, which is laughable.

I want BYU to be in the Big 12 as much as the next BYU fan, but the fan base itself has shown its true colors over the last few days.

The comparison to the Klan is hyperbole. But the point stands. Mormons have a racist past. Mormons have a homophobic present. Having racist and homophobic policies is legal, but that doesn't mean others shouldn't have condemned you for it.

I was thinking about poor man's SU's rants last night. Why would you want BYU in the B12? You specifically call for the condemnation of the sponsoring organization, yet still want to support one of its most visible arms? I can understand an less active or exmo having a soft spot for missionaries (especially if they served one), or appreciating the beauty of Motab, but rooting for kids - I assume you don't know- to win a game, seems strange. There are schools closer in proximity, and closer in idealogy, who are honestly better at football and basketball than byu. Why not switch which laundry you cheer for?

To be clear, I'm not a "our" way or the highway type person. I'm for more inclusion, not less. I like BM's thoughts on many things (his current diatribe, is not one of them). It just seems strangely contradictory to me. However, I suppose I can relate. I'm not a big fan of Nike's reported use of child labor, but I sure do like having a fresh new pair of kicks. I just don't go to Beaverton to protest while I'm wearing my swooshes.

[Goatnapper'96]

To be clear, I'm not a "our" way or the highway type person. I'm for more inclusion, not less. I like BM's thoughts on many things (his current diatribe, is not one of them). It just seems strangely contradictory to me. However, I suppose I can relate. I'm not a big fan of Nike's reported use of child labor, but I sure do like having a fresh new pair of kicks. I just don't go to Beaverton to protest while I'm wearing my swooshes.

BM is an asshole. It is ok for big tent inclusionary types who put weasel type pictures of their hands making a heart on their facebook page to exclude assholes.

[byu71]

For being one of the smartest guys on the board (with only 105 posts! Yet if feels like sooooo much more, for some reason) you often say dumb things. You honestly believe the average fan and/or lds member is less tolerant now than they were 5 years ago, let alone 20 years ago? You must not have paid very close attention to things back when you knew things beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I will take your word for it that he is one of the smartest guys on the board because I don't remember any of his previous 104 posts. I am ready for the old man jokes.

Sadly this recent post does have some valid nuggets in it but clouded by a bunch of BS.

If there was an honest debate about the HC, I would bet a good majority would say do away with it. My guess is that 80% or even more attending BYU are NOT bigots. However, the HC gives cover to those who are bigots. What message does, we do not discriminate against homosexuals but the the HC forbids them from showing their homosexuality in public.

I believe that a vast majority of students at BYU would live a standard the church would be proud of without the threat of expulsion.

Even with the HC though, BYU is an awesome school with an awesome atmosphere for both LDS and non LDS people.

[lambdacoug]

I will take your word for it that he is one of the smartest guys on the board because I don't remember any of his previous 104 posts. I am ready for the old man jokes.

Sadly this recent post does have some valid nuggets in it but clouded by a bunch of BS.

If there was an honest debate about the HC, I would bet a good majority would say do away with it. My guess is that 80% or even more attending BYU are NOT bigots. However, the HC gives cover to those who are bigots. What message does, we do not discriminate against homosexuals but the the HC forbids them from showing their homosexuality in public.

I believe that a vast majority of students at BYU would live a standard the church would be proud of without the threat of expulsion.

Even with the HC though, BYU is an awesome school with an awesome atmosphere for both LDS and non LDS people.

The HC always bothered me. Out of one side of their mouths the church leaders told us we were awesome and the greatest. Out of the other side they gave us the HC because we needed additional rules to ensure we were governing ourselves well. Or something.

[BlueK]

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/...e95013447.html

5-3 odds on making it into the Big 12.

I wonder what they're basing that on.

They're basing it on actual bets people are making. If I remember the article right, he got these from a bookie.

[lambdacoug]

They're basing it on actual bets people are making. If I remember the article right, he got these from a bookie.

Well, obviously. The thought was more of a rhetorical question. If people are placing bets based on the information that is out there, then they are being made based on the same speculation we all have. I suppose the hope is that some people in the know could place bets without violating NDAs.