The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[Bo Diddley]

I generally don't like independence and have advocated going back to the MWC with a special contract at one point. But I don't know that the "We can just go back to independence if things don't work out" line of thinking makes sense. It takes a lot of time and effort to get into a manageable spot with independence (one of the reasons I don't like it). If we join the Big 12 and it falls apart, I think we have to consider an MWC style conference (whatever the new make up is) as the landing point. Once we give up independence, I don't think it is wise to consider going back.

We come at this from different perspectives (I have really enjoyed Indepence) but I think we agree that just going back to it wouldn't be very easy if the Big 12 folds.

[Flystripper]

We come at this from different perspectives (I have really enjoyed Indepence) but I think we agree that just going back to it wouldn't be very easy if the Big 12 folds.

why?

[BigFatMeanie]

why?

Well, for starters, how confident are you that BYU could pick up a viable TV partner? BYU was fortunate to get the ESPN agreement and it has worked out so far. If for some reason a viable TV partner couldn't be found, going independent would be suicide. BYUTV by itself ain't gonna cut it.

[Bo Diddley]

Well, for starters, how confident are you that BYU could pick up a viable TV partner? BYU was fortunate to get the ESPN agreement and it has worked out so far. If for some reason a viable TV partner couldn't be found, going independent would be suicide. BYUTV by itself ain't gonna cut it.

Yep. Was going to go with this as the biggest point. Inertia is another one. Playing in a conference makes things so much easier as others have articulated.

[Uncle Ted]

This year's Indy schedule is good. They get worse after this year though and '24 schedule? Woof.

I wonder with the new B1G/ACC/Pac alliance it will make it significantly harder to schedule with those conferences as an independent. I have no problem with BYU playing lots of SEC teams, however.

[Uncle Ted]

Most people here know how I feel about independence. I would join with the remanence of the big 12 in a heartbeat. Independence will always be there if it does not work out.

I doubt BYU ever gets an invite though.

I could see the Big 12 (or the Smaller Big 8) inviting BYU and Boise St as football only.

[beefytee]

Things are going to be changing a lot here over the next few years between the playoff expansion and the P3 alliance. I've been arguing that going back to independence would not be easy, but I am having a hard time not thinking that Independence just sucks as it is. While last year was a fun year with all the wins, the schedule just sucked and BYU found itself on the outside looking in. While it may not be as extreme with the special circumstances of last year, the separation of the haves and the haves isn't going to decrease and go it alone is super risky.

[Uncle Ted]

I agree. Consistent decent scheduling and it means that BYU would likely only play 1-2 (perhaps none with the alliance scheduling agreements) games per year against programs with more resources. This season BYU is playing 7 teams with far more resources and future schedules are set up for 4-5. If BYU can still pick up Utah and some other team from the other 4 big conferences, of Notre Dame, and then play 8-9 Big 12 teams plus 1-2 non-BCS/FCS teams that makes for consistent better home schedules and a schedule where 10 wins is not a pipe dream for BYU. I will take those benefits to lose the great road games/neutral games we would lose over the next 5 years. Further, I think BYU would be increasing its resources for football and basketball.

Finally, OSU has its own cross country facility. Not a course at a park or golf course but a facility just dedicated to XC courses- that is where we belong! Finally, the back of the next state quarter for Utah will have a blond haired blue eyed 27 year old marathoner mother of 4 jogging in place, with a double jogging pram, at a stoplight!

I would love to see BYU bring back wrestling... OSU has a killer wrestling program.

[Flystripper]

Well, for starters, how confident are you that BYU could pick up a viable TV partner? BYU was fortunate to get the ESPN agreement and it has worked out so far. If for some reason a viable TV partner couldn't be found, going independent would be suicide. BYUTV by itself ain't gonna cut it.

Not worried about a TV partner. Finding a media partner for live sports inventory is not a problem in today's environment. I am not worried about that at all.

[All-American]

Things are going to be changing a lot here over the next few years between the playoff expansion and the P3 alliance. I've been arguing that going back to independence would not be easy, but I am having a hard time not thinking that Independence just sucks as it is. While last year was a fun year with all the wins, the schedule just sucked and BYU found itself on the outside looking in. While it may not be as extreme with the special circumstances of last year, the separation of the haves and the haves isn't going to decrease and go it alone is super risky.

Here's the thing though. Is the Big 12 going to be a have or a have not?

[Goatnapper'96]

Things are going to be changing a lot here over the next few years between the playoff expansion and the P3 alliance. I've been arguing that going back to independence would not be easy, but I am having a hard time not thinking that Independence just sucks as it is. While last year was a fun year with all the wins, the schedule just sucked and BYU found itself on the outside looking in. While it may not be as extreme with the special circumstances of last year, the separation of the haves and the haves isn't going to decrease and go it alone is super risky.

I agree.

The concern seems to be that the Big 12 will implode but other than Kansas for basketball why would anyone want any of the remaining Big 12 teams? Seems to be a group of middle to low end BCS level programs and I think that suits BYU just fine. Especially if Boise State can come along and BYU could have a fun regional rivalry.

But my guess is a lot of the decision makers out there have different priorities than me.

[Goatnapper'96]

Here's the thing though. Is the Big 12 going to be a have or a have not?

I think the better question is if they have more than BYU will have as independent? I think BYU should take opportunities to improve even if it isn't the step they desire most. Let us not let perfection become the enemy of the good.

[Uncle Ted]

Things are going to be changing a lot here over the next few years between the playoff expansion and the P3 alliance. I've been arguing that going back to independence would not be easy, but I am having a hard time not thinking that Independence just sucks as it is. While last year was a fun year with all the wins, the schedule just sucked and BYU found itself on the outside looking in. While it may not be as extreme with the special circumstances of last year, the separation of the haves and the haves isn't going to decrease and go it alone is super risky.

I keep thinking that with the alliances it just going to get harder and harder to schedule P5 teams as an independent. ND has their agreement with the ACC but BYU could be on the outside looking in, as you say, for more than just the post season. Maybe it would good to join the Big 12, if they can get some other quality teams to join. I keep thinking that the Big 12 really needs to expand to 14 or 16 teams (expand their inventory) to remain attractive to the networks. The down side is that is a lot of mouths to feed, however.

I would like BYU playing in the Big 12, however. Both Ft Worth and Waco are short road trips for me. Stillwater and Lubbock are like 4 or 5 hours away so they could still be done in a day (road) trip. If the Big 12 could remain a P5 that could give BYU pretty good access to the playoffs. I guess I would be open to football joining the conference. As for the rest of the sports joining that could be a problem with no Sunday play.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I think we should join if the offer comes.

[Uncle Ted]

Here's the thing though. Is the Big 12 going to be a have or a have not?

IMHO, the Big 12 would have to expand to like 14 or 16 teams to be a have. BYU is an obvious expansion team. BSU would be good for football only. Who else? Maybe Cincy, CSU, Houston (the Texas teams have a problem with Houston, however), Navy, AFA?