The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[Armenag]

Look, it isn't a good sign when Larry Scott is hiring a strategic consulting firm to come in and basically tell him what to do.

Or resorting to asking US Senators to intervene on the conference's behalf:

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/ore...oin_pac-1.html

[YOhio]

Texas legislature is getting outmuscled by the Lt. Gov.

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[San Juan Sun]

Texas legislature is getting outmuscled by the Lt. Gov.

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Rick Perry's beyotch can S a D.

[imanihonjin]

Rick Perry's beyotch can S a D.

Rick Perry isn't the governor of Texas anymore, but you are right this dude can S a D.

[San Juan Sun]

Rick Perry isn't the governor of Texas anymore, but you are right this dude can S a D.

Hey angry Japanese guy, I never said Rick Perry was the guv, just said this dude was his beyotch. Straight outta Austin.

[imanihonjin]

Hey angry Japanese guy, I never said Rick Perry was the guv, just said this dude was his beyotch. Straight outta Austin.

Okay....maybe you can explain the Rick Perry connection? It is just because both of them have resided in Austin at some point?

[Bigfoot is Cain]

Give BYU credit, maybe there will be a day where it moves past its discriminatory practices that led to many in the Pac-12 not wanting to associate with them. BYU will also have to abandon the stupid no play on Sunday policy as well.

Discriminatory practices? That's exactly what kept BYU out of the Pac 12; the discriminatory practices and religious bigotry of the Pac 12. If BYU wasn't owned by the LDS church then BYU would have been invited, and Utah would have been left out. If BYU wasn't owned by the LDS church then BYU wouldn't exist, but that is the only thing that mattered when the Pac 12 was looking to expand. Utah and the Pac 12 can talk about research institutions all they want, but it started and ended with the discriminatory practices and religious bigotry of the Pac 12.

[TripletDaddy]

Discriminatory practices? That's exactly what kept BYU out of the Pac 12; the discriminatory practices and religious bigotry of the Pac 12. If BYU wasn't owned by the LDS church then BYU would have been invited, and Utah would have been left out. If BYU wasn't owned by the LDS church then BYU wouldn't exist, but that is the only thing that mattered when the Pac 12 was looking to expand. Utah and the Pac 12 can talk about research institutions all they want, but it started and ended with the discriminatory practices and religious bigotry of the Pac 12.

ive heard this argument time and again but it doesnt seem to ring true to me. can you practice discrimination against an institution? are organizations granted the same protections as individuals? An organization is free to promote whatever values it sees fit just as other organizations are free to reject or disassociate from those same values. The same is not necessarily true of individuals as it pertains to being denied rights, access, treatment, etc. BYU schedules more games with the PAC than with any other P5 conference. That doesn't seem to be indicative of a conspiracy against BYU, at least not to me.

[imanihonjin]

ive heard this argument time and again but it doesnt seem to ring true to me. can you practice discrimination against an institution? are organizations granted the same protections as individuals? An organization is free to promote whatever values it sees fit just as other organizations are free to reject or disassociate from those same values. The same is not necessarily true of individuals as it pertains to being denied rights, access, treatment, etc. BYU schedules more games with the PAC than with any other P5 conference. That doesn't seem to be indicative of a conspiracy against BYU, at least not to me.

Of course you can practice discrimination against an institution. Perhaps you are saying that it is socially and legally acceptable to discriminate against institutions but not individuals?

[TripletDaddy]

Of course you can practice discrimination against an institution. Perhaps you are saying that it is socially and legally acceptable to discriminate against institutions but not individuals?

Yes, of course. In the truest sense of the word you can obviously discriminate against an institution. But at that level, mpfunk is also correct in that BYU discriminates. It is a pointless designation because everyone discriminates in some form or another. The quasi-legal argument that I referenced above was being made over and over during expansion as it pertained to the Church's actions toward Prop 8 and ongoing comments and attitudes about homosexuals. I just dont see a football conference passing on BYU as an analog to a religious organization promoting that homosexuality is an inherent sin.

[SeattleUte]

ive heard this argument time and again but it doesnt seem to ring true to me. can you practice discrimination against an institution? are organizations granted the same protections as individuals? An organization is free to promote whatever values it sees fit just as other organizations are free to reject or disassociate from those same values. The same is not necessarily true of individuals as it pertains to being denied rights, access, treatment, etc. BYU schedules more games with the PAC than with any other P5 conference. That doesn't seem to be indicative of a conspiracy against BYU, at least not to me.

So what's your explanation for the Pac 12 selecting Utah over BYU?

Actually, your post contains a very lucid explanation for why I think Utah got the gold ring over BYU, then ends with a conclusion that really doesn't follow. I agree with the first part of your post. Rejecting an institution because it purveys a sexist culture and outlook, has junk science, fraudulent history, and a magic world view on the curriculum; hasn't acknowledged or apologized for the racism overtly preached on its campus for decades if not up to today, undertook surreptitious efforts to subvert same sex persons' civil rights, attempts to impose on putative sister institutions a medieval -- indeed an Old Testament -- characterization of our week's seventh day, metaphysically burns at the stake its professors who condemn the foregoing, is not bigotry. It's choosing not to formally associate with an institution whose values are repugnant to existing member institutions'.

[TripletDaddy]

So what's your explanation for the Pac 12 selecting Utah over BYU?

Actually, your post contains a very lucid explanation for why I think Utah got the gold ring over BYU, then ends with a conclusion that really doesn't follow. I agree with the first part of your post. Rejecting an institution because it purveys a sexist culture and outlook, has junk science, fraudulent history, and a magic world view on the curriculum; hasn't acknowledged or apologized for the racism overtly preached on its campus for decades if not up to today, undertook surreptitious efforts to subvert same sex persons' civil rights, attempts to impose on putative sister institutions a medieval -- indeed an Old Testament -- characterization of our week's seventh day, metaphysically burns at the stake its professors who condemn the foregoing, is not bigotry. It's choosing not to formally associate with an institution whose values are repugnant to existing member institutions'.

Not sure I would have provided as much scathing detail but yes, more or less, if we as a religion want to "stand for something," that is fine, but if others do not want to stand with us as an organization, not sure that constitutes bigotry or discrimination.

As to your question about Utah over BYU, I think the PAC was simply pragmatic. The larger expansion plan (the first option) didnt work out so they invited Utah as the 12th team after Colorado jumped aboard. Utah had earned an invite with all that had been accomplished in the previous decade of football (not to mention decades of hoop). The other option, BYU, had certainly built its own compelling case over a lengthy period of time, but came with too much social and political baggage.

[Y84it]

So what's your explanation for the Pac 12 selecting Utah over BYU?

Actually, your post contains a very lucid explanation for why I think Utah got the gold ring over BYU, then ends with a conclusion that really doesn't follow. I agree with the first part of your post. Rejecting an institution because it purveys a sexist culture and outlook, has junk science, fraudulent history, and a magic world view on the curriculum; hasn't acknowledged or apologized for the racism overtly preached on its campus for decades if not up to today, undertook surreptitious efforts to subvert same sex persons' civil rights, attempts to impose on putative sister institutions a medieval -- indeed an Old Testament -- characterization of our week's seventh day, metaphysically burns at the stake its professors who condemn the foregoing, is not bigotry. It's choosing not to formally associate with an institution whose values are repugnant to existing member institutions'.

What institution are you talking about? They sound horrible.

[Crockett]

So what's your explanation for the Pac 12 selecting Utah over BYU?

Actually, your post contains a very lucid explanation for why I think Utah got the gold ring over BYU, then ends with a conclusion that really doesn't follow. I agree with the first part of your post. Rejecting an institution because it purveys a sexist culture and outlook, has junk science, fraudulent history, and a magic world view on the curriculum; hasn't acknowledged or apologized for the racism overtly preached on its campus for decades if not up to today, undertook surreptitious efforts to subvert same sex persons' civil rights, attempts to impose on putative sister institutions a medieval -- indeed an Old Testament -- characterization of our week's seventh day, metaphysically burns at the stake its professors who condemn the foregoing, is not bigotry. It's choosing not to formally associate with an institution whose values are repugnant to existing member institutions'.

[Cougarmandias]

Always delighted when the Foyer clichés make it into football talk. Thanks, SU, you never let me down. But watch your 6, mpfunk is coming on strong!