The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[Omaha 680]

It's been mentioned several times that the Big 12 cannot drop below 10 teams without damaging their TV contract. With the Big East saying they will enforce the 27 month notice of departure for any school that wants to leave and also talking of upping the exit fees, BYU appears to be the only one in a position to step in and be that 10th team next season (apart from ND, Army, or Navy of course).

[Top Ute]

The spatial representation is inaccurate, not the data. The votes are tallied, regardless of where they voted from. The "inaccuracy" he notes is that only the largest fanbase is shown for any particular location on the map.

Some other data to back up the size of the two fan bases:

Crimson Club membership 2010: 4667 ( http://www.crimsonclub.utah.edu/Membership-Drive.html)

Cowboy Joe Club membership 2010: 4200 ( http://s282593496.onlinehome.us/cowb...veBrochure.pdf)

Granted, this isn't a tally of the entire fan base, but it's pretty easy to extrapolate from these numbers the size of the respective fan bases.

Utah has more than twice the number of living alumni than Wyoming. In terms of CLC apparel sales, Utah is 40th, Wyoming is 62nd. This isn't even a fair fight.

[landpoke]

Utah has more than twice the number of living alumni than Wyoming. In terms of CLC apparel sales, Utah is 40th, Wyoming is 62nd. This isn't even a fair fight.

Alumni base does not equal fan base. Csu has an alumni base that is similar in size to utah's yet their fanbase is around half Wyomings. Apparel sales are meaningless, anyone can buy a t-shirt for any reason. Self-identification as a fan and booster club membership, on the other hand, are real numbers that directly indicate the size of a fanbase.

[Top Ute]

Alumni base does not equal fan base. Csu has an alumni base that is similar in size to utah's yet their fanbase is around half Wyomings. Apparel sales are meaningless, anyone can buy a t-shirt for any reason. Self-identification as a fan and booster club membership, on the other hand, are real numbers that directly indicate the size of a fanbase.

CSU's living alumni base, per CLC, is far closer to Wyoming than it is Utah.

CSU has 106K living alumni

Wyoming 70K

Utah 180K

Home attendance is a far greater measure of the size of a fanbase than membership in clubs whose entry requirements can be worlds-apart different.

If this discussion were a boxing match, it would be Tyson vs. Spinks. Hell, and I haven't even brought up your 1996 bowl snub either.

[TripletDaddy]

Home attendance is a far greater measure of the size of a fanbase than membership in clubs whose entry requirements can be worlds-apart different.

Pat STILL stumping for BYU over Utah! Go figure.

[Red Legger]

As Chief Huffsalot of the.....

"Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance". - Sun Tzu
As I pointed out. He was never UT's guy but OU's. Ours has always been Jack Swarbrick the Notre Dame AD.

“Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win” - Sun Tzu
The ACC/BE/B12 and ND/BYU all saw the writing on the wall last year. It is just a matter of time before the "Old Conferences" started cutting the cream off the top. So this time the ACC struck first and effectively outplayed the SEC. Did anyone really buy the Pitt/"cuse move over night? That was well planned ahead of time. Why in the world would Pitt/"cuse move to the ACC knowing there is a GOOD chance they would be on the radar for a B1G expansion?

“Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer” - Sun Tzu
Everyone within the BIG 12 knew that Texas A&M never stopped talking since last year. Everyone with a brain knows the SEC was targeting A&M and OU with the hopes of finally squeezing Texas into joining (this dance has been going on for 20 years. The SEC wants Texas and Texas A&M)

“Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak.” - Sun Tzu
The BIG 12 has been a dead man walking (we call it the Zombie Conference. It refuses to die). Unequal Revenue-Texas Bully- Everyone looking for a new home. Didn't expand back to 12 members. The list goes on and on. But now watch for the VERY public kiss and make up between UT/OU. With concessions on t-1/t-2 rights by Texas and NO HS football games ect... A long term commitment by the two schools. Texas comes out subdued in the media and public eye. Baylor put's the stamp of approval on it by releasing Texas A&M. And the BIG 12 is suddenly Stable and actively seeking to expand.

“All warfare is based on deception.” - Sun Tzu
OU id looking to get away from Texas by shopping OU/OSU/UT/TT to the only conference that controls ALL tier rights??? really??? Go as a package deal with the one you were trying to get away from??? All this going on while the ACC quietly moved to Plunder the BIG EAST effectively locking out the SEC and driving a knife into the BIG?

“Supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.” - Sun Tzu
The threat of OU/UT/TT/OSU to the PAC sure put a screeching halt to the expansion for the SEC. they even officially turned down WVU who almost certainly would have been on their plans to expand to 16. Most had them as a shoe-in for the 14th team.


“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” -Sun Tzu.
Now we have Notre Dame waking up. Swarbrick has the ammo needed to bring up conference affiliation. Their forums are lit up with chatter. The loss of the BIG EAST for their other sports has been an eye opener. I know BYU cannot be happy with being cut out of the PAC. We all know UT-ND-BYU all have had lot's of talks over the past year.

Now how much of all of this is chance? and how much of this is a chess game where BYU doesn't want to get let out of the Super 4, Notre Dame not going to be forced into folding in without cutting a soft nest at their terms, and OU-UT (the strongest 1-2 punch in college football not in check by the 3 'Old Conferences), making sure that the BIG 12 is one of the players when the dance breaks out.

I know it is a nice fairy tale... but interesting anyways

of the Salt Fork Band of the Kanzas once stated wisely, "Ummm, he who gazes at his navel long enough will find a hidden universe in there."

Ya'll Tejans need to STFD&STFU. Ya'll have just burnt every dam bridge into and out of the Big 12. You have embarrassed the good name of Dr Phog Allen's Big 6 Conference. Quit yakking about Tejans cooking up Chinese conspiracies w/ the Catholics and the Mormons, tell your freaking Baptists to quit spending money they don't have and just try and imagine how much money we could all make if we just played football and basketball and won some championships.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou

[landpoke]

CSU's living alumni base, per CLC, is far closer to Wyoming than it is Utah.

CSU has 106K living alumni

Wyoming 70K

Utah 180K

Home attendance is a far greater measure of the size of a fanbase than membership in clubs whose entry requirements can be worlds-apart different.

If this discussion were a boxing match, it would be Tyson vs. Spinks. Hell, and I haven't even brought up your 1996 bowl snub either.

Considering those numbers are off by almost 40 percent for Wyoming I'm not sure we can put much stock in them.
http://www.wyoalumni.com/demographics.html
Alumni numbers also don't account for fans who never attended the school.

Home attendance means nothing, especially in the context of a fan base as geographically spread out as Wyoming's.

[Gaffords]

of the Salt Fork Band of the Kanzas once stated wisely, "Ummm, he who gazes at his navel long enough will find a hidden universe in there."

Ya'll Tejans need to STFD&STFU. Ya'll have just burnt every dam bridge into and out of the Big 12. You have embarrassed the good name of Dr Phog Allen's Big 6 Conference. Quit yakking about Tejans cooking up Chinese conspiracies w/ the Catholics and the Mormons, tell your freaking Baptists to quit spending money they don't have and just try and imagine how much money we could all make if we just played football and basketball and won some championships.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou

Is Kansas ready to share the 8 million it makes off it's T-3 rights on the Jayhawk Network by airing Basket Ball? If not, I guess you can find the door also?

We will see about the Irish... Nowhere to park their non football sports. You might want to visit their forums sometime before looking any dumber.

OH and BTY... Your Jayhawk Stations are airing the UT/KU football game also.... Kettle Black???

[landpoke]

Reading the crimson club website I don't see anything that makes their membership criteria any different than the Cowboy Joe Club's. You just have to pony up some cash.

[Top Ute]

Pat STILL stumping for BYU over Utah! Go figure.

All I can really say to this is that I'm pleased that the gap is much more narrow now than it was 10-15 years ago.

[Red Legger]

Do you know the name of KU's Chancellor?

Is Kansas ready to share the 8 million it makes off it's T-3 rights on the Jayhawk Network by airing Basket Ball? If not, I guess you can find the door also?

We will see about the Irish... Nowhere to park their non football sports. You might want to visit their forums sometime before looking any dumber.

She's a really nice lady named Chancellor Bernie. She runs a close to $2 billion business, she manages KC's largest healthcare system, she manages Kansas City's professional basketball team and on the side a nice little teevee network. And she keeps her mouth shut. Hell, she's rooting for the LHN. She's got her own $89 million 3rd tier gig that you've never heard about. But unlike the loudmouths down in Tejas, she understands that the way you make money ain't w/ manipulative backroom deals w/ Kalifornians one day and the next w/ the tobacco mafia in North Carolina. You make money by putting a nice product on the field/court, managing expenses carefully and building decent business relationships to sustain your money making enterprise. Who's in better shape right now than KU? We've got our preferred option in the Big 12 where we'll make a truckload of money. And we've got a boxed in BiG as a fallback where we could also make a truckload of money. And we've burnt zippo bridges, haven't ran off our 100 year old business partners, have retained our honest name and haven't turned the football season into soap opera. That's more than ya'll can say down south.

Do you understand how the game is played yet? Noone in our own conference knows or cares about the Jayhawk Network. It's just there making money. Noone even connects the dots that KU is using the LHN to produce a football teevee show that will be shown to more people in Kanzas than in Texas given the LHN crappy rollout. Perhaps Chancellor Bernie should have a seminar on how to manage details like distribution w/ Deloss Dodds and Bill Powers rather than always jetting off to the coast for another pointless bigwig meeting w/ some grand poobahs. It would help ya'lls product.

And who does business by monitoring the chatter on the Irish boards?

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou

[PolyCougar]

She's a really nice lady named Chancellor Bernie. She runs a close to $2 billion business, she manages KC's largest healthcare system, she manages Kansas City's professional basketball team and on the side a nice little teevee network. And she keeps her mouth shut. Hell, she's rooting for the LHN. She's got her own $89 million 3rd tier gig that you've never heard about. But unlike the loudmouths down in Tejas, she understands that the way you make money ain't w/ manipulative backroom deals w/ Kalifornians one day and the next w/ the tobacco mafia in North Carolina. You make money by putting a nice product on the field/court, managing expenses carefully and building decent business relationships to sustain your money making enterprise. Who's in better shape right now than KU? We've got our preferred option in the Big 12 where we'll make a truckload of money. And we've got a boxed in BiG as a fallback where we could also make a truckload of money. And we've burnt zippo bridges, haven't ran off our 100 year old business partners, have retained our honest name and haven't turned the football season into soap opera. That's more than ya'll can say down south.

Do you understand how the game is played yet? Noone in our own conference knows or cares about the Jayhawk Network. It's just there making money. Noone even connects the dots that KU is using the LHN to produce a football teevee show that will be shown to more people in Kanzas than in Texas given the LHN crappy rollout. Perhaps Chancellor Bernie should have a seminar on how to manage details like distribution w/ Deloss Dodds and Bill Powers rather than always jetting off to the coast for another pointless bigwig meeting w/ some grand poobahs. It would help ya'lls product.

And who does business by monitoring the chatter on the Irish boards?

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou

Cool... a Big 12 fight on our board... I already feel like part of the family.

[myboynoah]

She's a really nice lady named Chancellor Bernie. She runs a close to $2 billion business, she manages KC's largest healthcare system, she manages Kansas City's professional basketball team and on the side a nice little teevee network. And she keeps her mouth shut. Hell, she's rooting for the LHN. She's got her own $89 million 3rd tier gig that you've never heard about. But unlike the loudmouths down in Tejas, she understands that the way you make money ain't w/ manipulative backroom deals w/ Kalifornians one day and the next w/ the tobacco mafia in North Carolina. You make money by putting a nice product on the field/court, managing expenses carefully and building decent business relationships to sustain your money making enterprise. Who's in better shape right now than KU? We've got our preferred option in the Big 12 where we'll make a truckload of money. And we've got a boxed in BiG as a fallback where we could also make a truckload of money. And we've burnt zippo bridges, haven't ran off our 100 year old business partners, have retained our honest name and haven't turned the football season into soap opera. That's more than ya'll can say down south.

Do you understand how the game is played yet? Noone in our own conference knows or cares about the Jayhawk Network. It's just there making money. Noone even connects the dots that KU is using the LHN to produce a football teevee show that will be shown to more people in Kanzas than in Texas given the LHN crappy rollout. Perhaps Chancellor Bernie should have a seminar on how to manage details like distribution w/ Deloss Dodds and Bill Powers rather than always jetting off to the coast for another pointless bigwig meeting w/ some grand poobahs. It would help ya'lls product.

And who does business by monitoring the chatter on the Irish boards?

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou

If the Big 12 brings us nothing more than more Red Legger, then we can count this as an unparalleled success.

[Top Ute]

Considering those numbers are off by almost 40 percent for Wyoming I'm not sure we can put much stock in them.
http://www.wyoalumni.com/demographics.html
Alumni numbers also don't account for fans who never attended the school.

Home attendance means nothing, especially in the context of a fan base as geographically spread out as Wyoming's.

If they're off for Wyoming, then they're off for Utah and CSU, too. It's the same source.

I'll guess home attendance means nothing in your eyes for the same reason apparel sales are meaningless. Anyone can just walk up to a stadium and buy a ticket, right? Check that -- you can do that in Wyoming, but not in SLC. I'm guessing you'll blame Wyoming's lousy TV ratings on 90 percent of the state not having cable or satellite, either.

[Red Legger]

Sorry, I don't mean to take...

Cool... a Big 12 fight on our board... I already feel like part of the family.

up ya'lls board. It's a fascinating thread, and I've become addicted to it over the last year. I like Gafford. But sometimes these Tejans get my goat. I just wished we hadn't fired the Phatbastard in 2010 or we'd go down to Austin and whip em on the LHN.

As far as I'm concerned, BYU's already in the Big 12. Just a matter of time afore these knuckleheads cool their jets and get the paperwork signed.

Rock Chalk Jayhawk, Beat Mizzou