The Big 12 expansion groundswell

[landpoke]

ouch! The fish are shooting back.

What happened to you man? You used to be cool.

[TripletDaddy]

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/09/21...agreement.html

If true, wow.

this was expected if the OU demand list were to be believed. I see this as a very positive development for BYU. Gives more credence to the fact that OUs requests are being taken seriously, provides much needed change for this dysfunctional group, and most importantly it signifies immediacy....the B12 wants to start acting quickly to be able to move forward with expansion. All good things for the Cougars of BYU.

The faster Dan Beebe is gone, the better.

We are one step closer to Louisville, West Virginia, and BYU in the B12.

[Blueintheface]

In all honesty, right now I'd prefer the PAC because of stability. However, if the Big 12 holds long-term, it is better for BYU (culturally) and me. I really hope it happens and both schools are better off than they were a year ago.

I've never understood the cultural argument. How is Utah like Cal, Stanford, or USC? Forget about BYU, convince me that Utah is anything like these Universities. We all know SU's subjective thoughts on the subject so can anyone else truly answer that for me?

For the record I think Utah belongs I just don't see how they belong based upon cultural similarities.

[Jeff Lebowski]

"SU with a testimony"? That sounds like a compliment.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

It doesn't say the survey is "highly inaccurate." It says the map is "highly inaccurate."

[Moliere]

I've never understood the cultural argument. How is Utah like Cal, Stanford, or USC? Forget about BYU, convince me that Utah is anything like these Universities. We all know SU's subjective thoughts on the subject so can anyone else truly answer that for me?

For the record I think Utah belongs I just don't see how they belong based upon cultural similarities.

I didn't mean tomimply Utah fit the PAC culturally, but they fit much better than BYU given the type of school they are with research and medical facilities. I'm sure the Utah students are overwhelmingly republican though....

[Hot Lunch]

TCU in the SEC just makes a lot more sense to me than TCU in the Big 12. TCU, while they have great football and baseball programs, doesn't really add a lot to the Big 12 footprint and recruiting like it does for the SEC. Jerry Jones, being a hog (he played on the Arkansas national championship team), most likely likes it as well and may even be helping to push it. The SEC already has the aTm/Arkansas game at JerryWorld now. I could see some SEC TCU games getting scheduled in JerryWorld (like vs. Arkansas and/or vs. LSU) as well.

It does make sense. I think that this is the last thing that Texas, OU, OSU and Texas Tech will want to see happen though. Overnight, TCU gains a huge recruiting advantages over many schools if this happens. Overnight TCU is able to get in the door of many high school recruits it wouldn't have.

[Gaffords]

So he gets a golden parachute?

I think he should be forced to pay a $18 million exit fee for leaving the conference

"Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance". - Sun Tzu
As I pointed out. He was never UT's guy but OU's. Ours has always been Jack Swarbrick the Notre Dame AD.

“Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win” - Sun Tzu
The ACC/BE/B12 and ND/BYU all saw the writing on the wall last year. It is just a matter of time before the "Old Conferences" started cutting the cream off the top. So this time the ACC struck first and effectively outplayed the SEC. Did anyone really buy the Pitt/"cuse move over night? That was well planned ahead of time. Why in the world would Pitt/"cuse move to the ACC knowing there is a GOOD chance they would be on the radar for a B1G expansion?

“Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer” - Sun Tzu
Everyone within the BIG 12 knew that Texas A&M never stopped talking since last year. Everyone with a brain knows the SEC was targeting A&M and OU with the hopes of finally squeezing Texas into joining (this dance has been going on for 20 years. The SEC wants Texas and Texas A&M)

“Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak.” - Sun Tzu
The BIG 12 has been a dead man walking (we call it the Zombie Conference. It refuses to die). Unequal Revenue-Texas Bully- Everyone looking for a new home. Didn't expand back to 12 members. The list goes on and on. But now watch for the VERY public kiss and make up between UT/OU. With concessions on t-1/t-2 rights by Texas and NO HS football games ect... A long term commitment by the two schools. Texas comes out subdued in the media and public eye. Baylor put's the stamp of approval on it by releasing Texas A&M. And the BIG 12 is suddenly Stable and actively seeking to expand.

“All warfare is based on deception.” - Sun Tzu
OU id looking to get away from Texas by shopping OU/OSU/UT/TT to the only conference that controls ALL tier rights??? really??? Go as a package deal with the one you were trying to get away from??? All this going on while the ACC quietly moved to Plunder the BIG EAST effectively locking out the SEC and driving a knife into the BIG?

“Supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.” - Sun Tzu
The threat of OU/UT/TT/OSU to the PAC sure put a screeching halt to the expansion for the SEC. they even officially turned down WVU who almost certainly would have been on their plans to expand to 16. Most had them as a shoe-in for the 14th team.


“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” -Sun Tzu.
Now we have Notre Dame waking up. Swarbrick has the ammo needed to bring up conference affiliation. Their forums are lit up with chatter. The loss of the BIG EAST for their other sports has been an eye opener. I know BYU cannot be happy with being cut out of the PAC. We all know UT-ND-BYU all have had lot's of talks over the past year.

Now how much of all of this is chance? and how much of this is a chess game where BYU doesn't want to get let out of the Super 4, Notre Dame not going to be forced into folding in without cutting a soft nest at their terms, and OU-UT (the strongest 1-2 punch in college football not in check by the 3 'Old Conferences), making sure that the BIG 12 is one of the players when the dance breaks out.

I know it is a nice fairy tale... but interesting anyways

[Top Ute]

It doesn't say the survey is "highly inaccurate." It says the map is "highly inaccurate."

Ummm ... the map and the figures therein were used in determining the number of fans. Inaccurate data tends to lead to inaccurate results. Also, the author admits to "adjusting the results," but gives little criteria or basis for those adjustments.

All this report does is confirm the most basic generalities of college football fans -- that the South has more fans, that BCS schools tend to have bigger fan bases than non-BCS schools, etc. But there are too many conclusions this report makes that just aren't grounded in reality. There are far better (and better verified) data sources to determine fanbase size than this one, which relies first and foremost on a freakin' internet poll.

[Gaffords]

It does make sense. I think that this is the last thing that Texas, OU, OSU and Texas Tech will want to see happen though. Overnight, TCU gains a huge recruiting advantages many schools if this happens. Overnight TCU is able to get in the door of many high school recruits it wouldn't have.

That would be the only reason. But you still have teams like SMU and UH in the state also. We can't keep everyone out forever. That is why I am curious to see if one of the Florida schools doesn't end up on the list. nice trade off with the SEC.

[TripletDaddy]

“Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer” - Sun Tzu


I know it is a nice fairy tale... but interesting anyways

Speaking of fairy tales, sun tzu never said that.

[EuropeanFootballMale]

sure and byu has a nat championship and you dont. so what?

Oh lord you brought up the national championship with TopUte in earshot. At least you didn't say that BYU has played in a national championship game.

[Gaffords]

Ummm ... the map and the figures therein were used in determining the number of fans. Inaccurate data tends to lead to inaccurate results. Also, the author admits to "adjusting the results," but gives little criteria or basis for those adjustments.

All this report does is confirm the most basic generalities of college football fans -- that the South has more fans, that BCS schools tend to have bigger fan bases than non-BCS schools, etc. But there are too many conclusions this report makes that just aren't grounded in reality. There are far better (and better verified) data sources to determine fanbase size than this one, which relies first and foremost on a freakin' internet poll.

I LOL'd when I saw GT>UGA by like 600,000 fans.

[LA Ute]

I didn't mean tomimply Utah fit the PAC culturally, but they fit much better than BYU given the type of school they are with research and medical facilities. I'm sure the Utah students are overwhelmingly republican though....

Maybe we can have a long talk about this some day, but I think that statement is completely wrong. Like it or not (and sometimes I don't) the U. of U. is an honest to goodness, hard-core liberal public university. The influence of Utah's culture takes some of the edges off that character, but it's a very secular and worldly place. (Of all people, BYU fans should buy that view!)

Interestingly, the PAC-12 campus the U. most resembles is CU's. In that sense they kind of do form a pair, even though there is no rivalry between them yet. I've spent lots of time on Utah's campus and on CU's, and in the surrounding neighborhood. The atmosphere is very similar.

Sometimes I think you guys believe the Institute of Religion is the U's campus. It's actually like another world, compared to the rest of the campus.

[landpoke]

Ummm ... the map and the figures therein were used in determining the number of fans. Inaccurate data tends to lead to inaccurate results. Also, the author admits to "adjusting the results," but gives little criteria or basis for those adjustments.

All this report does is confirm the most basic generalities of college football fans -- that the South has more fans, that BCS schools tend to have bigger fan bases than non-BCS schools, etc. But there are too many conclusions this report makes that just aren't grounded in reality. There are far better (and better verified) data sources to determine fanbase size than this one, which relies first and foremost on a freakin' internet poll.

The spatial representation is inaccurate, not the data. The votes are tallied, regardless of where they voted from. The "inaccuracy" he notes is that only the largest fanbase is shown for any particular location on the map.

Some other data to back up the size of the two fan bases:

Crimson Club membership 2010: 4667 ( http://www.crimsonclub.utah.edu/Membership-Drive.html)

Cowboy Joe Club membership 2010: 4200 ( http://s282593496.onlinehome.us/cowb...veBrochure.pdf)

Granted, this isn't a tally of the entire fan base, but it's pretty easy to extrapolate from these numbers the size of the respective fan bases.