Unga's withdrawing from school.

[UtahDan]

Without an Honor Code does BYU become a significantly different institution?

I don't think so. I think you still have an ecclesiastic endorsement that can be withdrawn. The standards for BYU students are simply what they are for the rest of the church (get rid of the facial hair and other nonsense). That way whatever happens happens in the setting of priesthood authority and the school simply follows whatever the priesthood leader does. What would be wrong with BYU simply saying "We are a church school but we aren't the church. What happens in terms of a student's endorsement is between him and his ecclesiastical leader."

Unless of course you were really talking about something the school has a legitimate interest in such as cheating or something that threatens the security of other students.

[TripletDaddy]

Without an Honor Code does BYU become a significantly different institution?

Yes, but only because most universities have honor codes.

The problem is not the existence of an honor code. it is the far-reaching scope of the honor code. and the enforcement thereof.

The most puzzling thing about the HC at BYU is that the consequences and rules are often MORE strict than those of the Church, in general. This is the disconnect that has always puzzled me. And generally speaking, the LDS Church is not going to ex you for messing up, esp if you are repentant.

I am not sure it would be a bad thing were BYU to become a "different institution." Some changes are in order, that is for sure, and not just because of Harvey Unga.

[SCcoug]

Without an Honor Code does BYU become a significantly different institution?

I doubt it. You'd still have 99% (or there about) of the university be LDS. The student body itself is the main driver of the culture not the honor code in my opinion. There would still be university policies against cheating, plagiarism and such, Bishops would still give the annual chastity talk at church, campus would still shut down for Tuesday devotionals, freshmen would still hike the Y ect.

[U-Ute]

THis is pretty high profile, a BYU womens basketball player that everyone knows is dating Harvey Unga walking around pregnant. I think Harvey may have withdrawn because he figured he was gone anyways and wants to try and start working out for NFL scouts and get ready for the supplemental draft.

I think you hit the nail here. By all accounts, the departure was voluntary and he will have a new mouth to feed.

I have nothing but respect for the kid. A great player who let his game do the talking.

U-Ute

[thesaint258]

Yes, but only because most universities have honor codes.

The problem is not the existence of an honor code. it is the far-reaching scope of the honor code. and the enforcement thereof.

The most puzzling thing about the HC at BYU is that the consequences and rules are often MORE strict than those of the Church, in general. This is the disconnect that has always puzzled me. And generally speaking, the LDS Church is not going to ex you for messing up, esp if you are repentant.

I am not sure it would be a bad thing were BYU to become a "different institution." Some changes are in order, that is for sure, and not just because of Harvey Unga.

I agree. The fact that it's more strict coupled with the absolutely stupid and insane method they use to enforce it are my biggest problems.

[LA Ute]

I think you hit the nail here. By all accounts, the departure was voluntary and he will have a new mouth to feed.

I have nothing but respect for the kid. A great player who let his game do the talking.

U-Ute

Agreed. As a Ute fan I want him on the BYU team because I want the best Ute teams playing the best Cougar teams. As for Harvey he'll be fine and I think he's showing a lot of integrity in the way he's dealing with this.

[Hot Lunch]

You and I both know of a situation where a BYU student knocked his girlfriend up and he stayed in school.

When I posted this I actually forgot about the one you are talking about. Not sure how I forgot about that. And yes you are correct. What I was thinking when I posted this is I had a mission companion that knocked up his girlfriend and was kicked out. He ended up finishing up at UVSC.

[New Mexican Disaster]

Without an Honor Code does BYU become a significantly different institution?

I don't think it would be a significantly different institution.

[New Mexican Disaster]

The most puzzling thing about the HC at BYU is that the consequences and rules are often MORE strict than those of the Church, in general. This is the disconnect that has always puzzled me. And generally speaking, the LDS Church is not going to ex you for messing up, esp if you are repentant.

I am not sure it would be a bad thing were BYU to become a "different institution." Some changes are in order, that is for sure, and not just because of Harvey Unga.

True, true. Let's not even get started on dress and grooming standards.

[Portland Ute]

Does anyone really not expect Unga to play this fall. I think he'll run onto the field and play against Washington.

As far as Unga is concerned, that's probably the right thing. As for whether or not that is consistent with the way Average Joe is treated, we can only speculate.

I'll be surprised if he's not back for the 2010 season. Every quote in every article and even the press release seem to leave that possibility wide open. The fact that it is reported that he withdrew rather than being suspended or expelled speaks volumes, IMO.

He'll be back. The Cougar fans need to stop it with the hand wringing about how this will affect the upcoming season. It won't affect it.

Utah fans need to get past the premature celebration of BYU falling apart next season. Harvey will be back.

[U-Ute]

Does anyone really not expect Unga to play this fall. I think he'll run onto the field and play against Washington.

As far as Unga is concerned, that's probably the right thing. As for whether or not that is consistent with the way Average Joe is treated, we can only speculate.

I'll be surprised if he's not back for the 2010 season. Every quote in every article and even the press release seem to leave that possibility wide open. The fact that it is reported that he withdrew rather than being suspended or expelled speaks volumes, IMO.

He'll be back. The Cougar fans need to stop it with the hand wringing about how this will affect the upcoming season. It won't affect it.

Utah fans need to get past the premature celebration of BYU falling apart next season. Harvey will be back.

I don't know the rules or the time lines for the supplemental draft, but could he try and see if he gets drafted there, and then decide to come back if he doesn't like the situation?

U-Ute

[Portland Ute]

I'd be really surprised if he is back on the field this fall. Not because I think he shouldn't be, but because I don't think the powers that be would allow it.

Which powers that be? Bronco would allow it. The AD would allow it. I think if he has the right Stake President and Bishop, they would allow it. The Honor Code office can't do much with it because they withdrew, probably before they could be expelled.

the only "powers that be" that would have a problem with it are on S. Temple. Eyring and others might be a bit perturbed by such a rushed repentance.

I think he's back.

[John McClain]

According to Jay Drew, Harvey is declaring for the supplemental draft and will not be re-enrolling at BYU. I suspect that if he does not get drafted, he will still try the free agent route. I don't see him back at BYU under these circumstances.

[Hot Lunch]

Which powers that be? Bronco would allow it. The AD would allow it. I think if he has the right Stake President and Bishop, they would allow it. The Honor Code office can't do much with it because they withdrew, probably before they could be expelled.

the only "powers that be" that would have a problem with it are on S. Temple. Eyring and others might be a bit perturbed by such a rushed repentance.

I think he's back.

Harvey isn't coming back.

[Colly Wolly]

Which powers that be? Bronco would allow it. The AD would allow it. I think if he has the right Stake President and Bishop, they would allow it. The Honor Code office can't do much with it because they withdrew, probably before they could be expelled.

the only "powers that be" that would have a problem with it are on S. Temple. Eyring and others might be a bit perturbed by such a rushed repentance.

I think he's back.

Reno was a freshman the same year I was. He knocked a girl up after football season. Didn't see the field in a BYU uniform until the semester after I got home from my mission (fall 2001).