NBA 2013-2014

[smokymountainrain]

Also, just 2 assists in those 53 minutes.

It's been like that all year. I don't know if I've ever seen a coach overrate a player like Thibs does with Butler. It's as if Butler is irreplaceable. Butler has a PER of 13, shoots sub 40% FGs and 28% 3pt on the season.

Way to go Thibs - on a team in desperate need of scoring, TT plays Butler 44 minutes a game in the series and Butler responds by shooting 38% FGs, 25% 3pt and getting 2.3 assists - IOW, he played like Jimmy Butler. He's basically a waste of space on the basketball court, but Thibodeau treats him like he's a rich man's Kevin Durant.

[MarkGrace]

Way to go Thibs - on a team in desperate need of scoring, TT plays Butler 44 minutes a game in the series and Butler responds by shooting 38% FGs, 25% 3pt and getting 2.3 assists - IOW, he played like Jimmy Butler. He's basically a waste of space on the basketball court, but Thibodeau treats him like he's a rich man's Kevin Durant.

Man Cougar fans get uptight about players and coaches on whatever team's bench Jimmer occupies.

[cougjunkie]

Man Cougar fans get uptight about players and coaches on whatever team's bench Jimmer occupies.

Whether it was jimmer or someone else, Chicago needed to switch things up and Thibs refused. They were terrible on offense and defense

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[smokymountainrain]

Man Cougar fans get uptight about players and coaches on whatever team's bench Jimmer occupies.

Has nothing to do with Jimmer. I don't know if I've ever seen a coach overrate a player like TT does with Butler, whether Jimmer's on the bench or not. I doubt you could find any instance in NBA history where a coach has played a player as bad as Butler so many minutes either in the playoffs or the regular season. It's just so bad.

[fusnik]

Has nothing to do with Jimmer. I don't know if I've ever seen a coach overrate a player like TT does with Butler, whether Jimmer's on the bench or not. I doubt you could find any instance in NBA history where a coach has played a player as bad as Butler so many minutes either in the playoffs or the regular season. It's just so bad.

Who are you going to give his minutes to?

Ronnie Brewer?
Tony Snell?
Jimmer?

That might be the worst bench in the playoffs.

[MarkGrace]

Has nothing to do with Jimmer. I don't know if I've ever seen a coach overrate a player like TT does with Butler, whether Jimmer's on the bench or not. I doubt you could find any instance in NBA history where a coach has played a player as bad as Butler so many minutes either in the playoffs or the regular season. It's just so bad.

So you're being hyperbolic just to be hyperbolic? I'd love to find you an instance, but he's just not a bad player to begin with. Butler is exactly the kind of player that is becomes increasingly valued as overall court impact gets more measurable. By defensive rpm he ranks 6th among all SG's in the league, 8th in war and 9th in overall rpm. What is so waste of space about that? What's so offensively bad about that type of production? Nothing that I can see other than the fact that he occupies a spot where jimmer could arguably get minutes. But I guess that's not what you're getting at.

At any rate, the bulls offense and defense was definitely bad, but one look down that bench would tell you there weren't many options. And thibs is a defense first guy that will live or die on that end of the court, and they certainly weren't getting better there by removing their best perimeter defender. I hardly see much to be surprised at in this equation.

[fusnik]

So you're being hyperbolic just to be hyperbolic? I'd love to find you an instance, but he's just not a bad player to begin with. Butler is exactly the kind of player that is becomes increasingly valued as overall court impact gets more measurable. By defensive rpm he ranks 6th among all SG's in the league, 8th in war and 9th in overall rpm. What is so waste of space about that? What's so offensively bad about that type of production? Nothing that I can see other than the fact that he occupies a spot where jimmer could arguably get minutes. But I guess that's not what you're getting at.

At any rate, the bulls offense and defense was definitely bad, but one look down that bench would tell you there weren't many options. And thibs is a defense first guy that will live or die on that end of the court, and they certainly weren't getting better there by removing their best perimeter defender. I hardly see much to be surprised at in this equation.

Lol.

Poor SMR on the wrong side of a sports debate, again.

[smokymountainrain]

So you're being hyperbolic just to be hyperbolic? I'd love to find you an instance, but he's just not a bad player to begin with. Butler is exactly the kind of player that is becomes increasingly valued as overall court impact gets more measurable. By defensive rpm he ranks 6th among all SG's in the league, 8th in war and 9th in overall rpm. What is so waste of space about that? What's so offensively bad about that type of production? Nothing that I can see other than the fact that he occupies a spot where jimmer could arguably get minutes. But I guess that's not what you're getting at.

At any rate, the bulls offense and defense was definitely bad, but one look down that bench would tell you there weren't many options. And thibs is a defense first guy that will live or die on that end of the court, and they certainly weren't getting better there by removing their best perimeter defender. I hardly see much to be surprised at in this equation.

At what point does the piss poor offense negate the above average defense? At a certain point, it becomes tough to play 4 on 5 basketball. He isn't good enough defensively to take away anybody on the opposition away, yet having him out there shooting 38 and 25 and not making teammates better, he is essentially making his team play 4 on 5 on that end. At any rate, I'm not saying he should never play, just that 44 minutes a night seems excessive. At the end of the day, how did it work out for Thibs? They were the 4 seed with homecourt and lost 4 games to 1.

[fusnik]

At what point does the piss poor offense negate the above average defense? At a certain point, it becomes tough to play 4 on 5 basketball. He isn't good enough defensively to take away anybody on the opposition away, yet having him out there shooting 38 and 25 and not making teammates better, he is essentially making his team play 4 on 5 on that end. At any rate, I'm not saying he should never play, just that 44 minutes a night seems excessive. At the end of the day, how did it work out for Thibs? They were the 4 seed with homecourt and lost 4 games to 1.

Lol.

They are missing their best player and they traded their third best player for nothing.

They finished the season 36-16 without Deng and Rose and with Butler playing almost 40 minutes a game.

Making it to the playoffs as a 4th seed I would say was a wildly successful season.

[TripletDaddy]

Lol.

Poor SMR on the wrong side of a sports debate, again.

Lets put this in the SMR Lies thread.

[cougjunkie]

Can someone show me where Jimmy Butler is on this DRPM list?

I don't see him.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM

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[wapiti]

I found it strange that Thibs failed to sub offense/defense in the last couple of possessions, particularly in the possession with 16 seconds left and the team down 3 points. Sure, he subbed Dunleavy in for Boozer for Dunleavy to potentially hit a 3. But why would you leave a 50% 3 point shooter on the bench in that situation? And when Heinrich fouled out Thibs left Boozer in the game with the team down 5 and 9 seconds left.

I'm not sure why the defense is getting lambasted here. They only gave up 75 points and may have won had they been able to secure a rebound down the stretch.

[MartyFunkhouser]

Whether it was jimmer or someone else, Chicago needed to switch things up and Thibs refused. They were terrible on offense and defense

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So a byu fan posts the same thing I did and now you are willing time admit it is about Fredette.

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[MarkGrace]

At what point does the piss poor offense negate the above average defense?

When the net impact becomes negative. And when you're top 10 in your at your position in things like WAR and RPM, you're a long way from that.

At a certain point, it becomes tough to play 4 on 5 basketball. He isn't good enough defensively to take away anybody on the opposition away, yet having him out there shooting 38 and 25 and not making teammates better, he is essentially making his team play 4 on 5 on that end. At any rate, I'm not saying he should never play, just that 44 minutes a night seems excessive.

He is good enough defensively to take players away to the extent you can in the NBA. And again, no matter what you want to make of the 4 on 5 stuff, it's clearly not the case, as his floor impact is positive any way you slice it. Besides, flip him for another player and you might be playing 4 on 5 just in the other direction. Snell and Brewer still leaves you at 4 on 5 offensively, and Jimmer puts you 4 on 5 defensively. Might as well just stick with your best option at the position.

At the end of the day, how did it work out for Thibs? They were the 4 seed with homecourt and lost 4 games to 1.

And all of that would have changed had he just subbed someone from his terrible bench for Jimmy Butler? Of course not. They got to the playoffs by playing grind-it-out defense and a big part of that was playing their best interior defender (Noah) and their best wing defender (Butler) pretty much constantly to keep their D in tact. By the time you get to the playoffs you stick with the formula and guys that got you there, especially when you have no other suitable alternatives.

[MarkGrace]

Can someone show me where Jimmy Butler is on this DRPM list?

I don't see him.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM

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Well I'm locked out at work. You should be able to sort by SG's, then sort by DRPM.