"You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

[MarkGrace]

A year ago, we had the Jazz ranked fourth in the Future Power Rankings. What a difference 12 months can make. Utah's decision to let both Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap walk this past summer, combined with the choice to eschew using copious cap room to add more talent to the roster caused its Players rank to take a pretty big beating. The Jazz slid from 13th to 19th in our current rankings while remaining steady in virtually every other category.

The team continues to have strong leadership and lots of future cap space, and should be able to snag a lottery pick and another first-rounder in one of the best drafts we've seen in a decade. In addition, the players that it does have left all have terrific promise. Derrick Favors, Gordon Hayward and Enes Kanter all continue to have major upside. Rookie point guard Trey Burke struggled in the Summer League, but his résumé as a college player was stellar. Many in the organization still hold out hope that Alex Burks may be a star someday as well.

So, we may be overreacting, just a bit, to a one-year decision to use the epic 2014 draft to bring in another young building block. If even just a couple of those players take the next step toward stardom, the Jazz should be well on their way toward being a contender in the West starting in 2015.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/FuturePowerRankings-3-130923/11-15

[Donuthole]

While we're talking future NBA, it appears George is close to signing a max deal with Indiana. There is no doubt I would rather have George than Hayward straight up. It's not a debate at this point. However, what is debatable, at least to me, is whether I would rather have George for five years at 18MM per (what his max deal will probably average out to be) or Hayward for five years at, say, 9 million per. You certainly don't get twice the production from George. In a big market this still isn't a debate, but in a small market, with a team whose finances are very much strapped by the salary cap and luxury tax, I think I prefer Hayward.

[Jacob]

While we're talking future NBA, it appears George is close to signing a max deal with Indiana. There is no doubt I would rather have George than Hayward straight up. It's not a debate at this point. However, what is debatable, at least to me, is whether I would rather have George for five years at 18MM per (what his max deal will probably average out to be) or Hayward for five years at, say, 9 million per. You certainly don't get twice the production from George. In a big market this still isn't a debate, but in a small market, with a team whose finances are very much strapped by the salary cap and luxury tax, I think I prefer Hayward.

But it's hard to imagine Hayward getting only half what George gets. At this point, the Jazz would have already offered him max years at 10 million per, no? Same for Favors.

[Blueintheface]

While we're talking future NBA, it appears George is close to signing a max deal with Indiana. There is no doubt I would rather have George than Hayward straight up. It's not a debate at this point. However, what is debatable, at least to me, is whether I would rather have George for five years at 18MM per (what his max deal will probably average out to be) or Hayward for five years at, say, 9 million per. You certainly don't get twice the production from George. In a big market this still isn't a debate, but in a small market, with a team whose finances are very much strapped by the salary cap and luxury tax, I think I prefer Hayward.

I think Gordon's asking price will be higher than $9MM. This will certainly depend on how he does in his new role but IMO he's going to sign for closer to the max than that.

[Donuthole]

But it's hard to imagine Hayward getting only half what George gets. At this point, the Jazz would have already offered him max years at 10 million per, no? Same for Favors.

Ok, same question substituting 10MM per instead of 9MM.

[MarkGrace]

I think Gordon's asking price will be higher than $9MM. This will certainly depend on how he does in his new role but IMO he's going to sign for closer to the max than that.

Jazz are already working on extensions for both and apparently are pretty close with Gordon. I'm guessing his will be done before the season starts. Favors I could see waiting it out.

[Jacob]

Ok, same question substituting 10MM per instead of 9MM.

I don't mean to quibble. My concern is that if George signs for 18MM as is rumored, then Gordon's price is going to be higher than we are expecting, not 9 or 10MM. As to your quandry, I'd take Hayward if he is only about half the price, but he probably won't come so cheap as half priced compared to George. If he were going to accept 9 or 10MM, the deal might already be done, no? Same goes for Favors.

[Blueintheface]

Jazz are already working on extensions for both and apparently are pretty close with Gordon. I'm guessing his will be done before the season starts. Favors I could see waiting it out.

Me too re: Favors. Both have unique skill sets but Gordon's position and ability is the new 'must have' in the NBA which is why I think he will negotiate a deal closer to $13MM per. Favors certainly might get something like that but I have my doubts that Utah will be his permanent landing spot. Two players with that much salary is a dangerous prospect that the Jazz are very familiar with.

[Donuthole]

I don't mean to quibble. My concern is that if George signs for 18MM as is rumored, then Gordon's price is going to be higher than we are expecting, not 9 or 10MM. As to your quandry, I'd take Hayward if he is only about half the price, but he probably won't come so cheap as half priced compared to George. If he were going to accept 9 or 10MM, the deal might already be done, no? Same goes for Favors.

I don't know. Admittedly, I knew the old CBA a lot better than I know the current one. I guess my point is, I really really like George, and have thought all along that I'd rather have him than Gordon. But seeing his name next to rumors of a 90MM or 100MM contract makes me just a bit squeamish for whatever reason, and think I'd rather have Hayward for 60 to 70MM. I didn't think I would ever say that about George, and especially not after how well he played last season and postseason.

[Sizzle]

I don't know. Admittedly, I knew the old CBA a lot better than I know the current one. I guess my point is, I really really like George, and have thought all along that I'd rather have him than Gordon. But seeing his name next to rumors of a 90MM or 100MM contract makes me just a bit squeamish for whatever reason, and think I'd rather have Hayward for 60 to 70MM. I didn't think I would ever say that about George, and especially not after how well he played last season and postseason.

Ask yourself (hypothetically) would you rather have Paul George or Gordon Hayward and Alec Burks? Because based on what I've seen, those deals long term will likely equal out to be about the same. Asking the question like that, I'm almost swayed back to George.

[MarkGrace]

George is not worth max money in a small market. If the postseason was actual George, then he might be something close to it. Regular season George is not worth it. And you don't pay for postseason unless you want to get screwed.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

George is not worth max money in a small market. If the postseason was actual George, then he might be something close to it. Regular season George is not worth it. And you don't pay for postseason unless you want to get screwed.

Not even postseason George. His offense was very pedestrian minus two consecutive games against Miami when he shot a combined 22-38 and made 8 out of 16 3's IIRC. Take those two games away, and in the other 17 postseason games he shot 39% from the field and sub-30 from 3. He also doesn't get to the line anywhere near the rate the good perimeter scorers do in the league. His rebounding and defense obviously up his value significantly, and at only 22 his offense certainly has some more growth to it. But $90 M for a guy who doesn't shoot the 3 great and doesn't get to the line, and whose defense has certainly been helped by Indiana's scheme and Hibbert's paint presence, maybe puts Indiana in a tough spot going forward if George's offensive game doesn't grow significantly or if something happens to make their defense drop off.

He certainly looks the part of a max money star, but there is still untapped potential before George gets to that point, even though it seems many people already think he's there. Those 2 games against Miami got him a ton of star recognition in the media and from fans in the NBA.

[Donuthole]

George is not worth max money in a small market. If the postseason was actual George, then he might be something close to it. Regular season George is not worth it. And you don't pay for postseason unless you want to get screwed.

Not even postseason George. His offense was very pedestrian minus two consecutive games against Miami when he shot a combined 22-38 and made 8 out of 16 3's IIRC. Take those two games away, and in the other 17 postseason games he shot 39% from the field and sub-30 from 3. He also doesn't get to the line anywhere near the rate the good perimeter scorers do in the league. His rebounding and defense obviously up his value significantly, and at only 22 his offense certainly has some more growth to it. But $90 M for a guy who doesn't shoot the 3 great and doesn't get to the line, and whose defense has certainly been helped by Indiana's scheme and Hibbert's paint presence, maybe puts Indiana in a tough spot going forward if George's offensive game doesn't grow significantly or if something happens to make their defense drop off.

He certainly looks the part of a max money star, but there is still untapped potential before George gets to that point, even though it seems many people already think he's there. Those 2 games against Miami got him a ton of star recognition in the media and from fans in the NBA.

You guys are making me feel better about my impressions. Because I know I'm going to listen to some NBA podcast where Bill Simmons is absolutely certain that George is a max guy and everyone he talks to agrees with him, and blah blah blah. And I'm going to start second guessing myself and wondering if I'm not being objective simply because George could be on the Jazz.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

Scott Machado coming to Jazz training camp.

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2013/09/jazz-sign-scott-machado.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[smokymountainrain]

Scott Machado coming to Jazz training camp.

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2013/09/j...medium=twitter

Possibly the best PG on the roster.