"You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

[Sizzle]

This is my question. Remember, last summer the Jazz thought they may have a three-headed monster with Sap/Favors/Big Al, there were still questions as to who they wanted to keep, etc. so the dialogue of what packages were presented definitely weren't as clear then as they are now. I can see the Jazz having second thoughts then about including Millsap, Hayward and future firsts for Harden. Would OKC have insisted on Favors? I probably would have, as last year, I would have had to think about it.

If its being portrayed that the Jazz and OKC had discussions about Harden, and hadnt yet arrived at a suitable deal for eother side, and Houston came in and made an offer they couldn't refuse, I believe that.

[cougjunkie]

This is my question. Remember, last summer the Jazz thought they may have a three-headed monster with Sap/Favors/Big Al, there were still questions as to who they wanted to keep, etc. so the dialogue of what packages were presented definitely weren't as clear then as they are now. I can see the Jazz having second thoughts then about including Millsap, Hayward and future firsts for Harden. Would OKC have insisted on Favors? I probably would have, as last year, I would have had to think about it.

If its being portrayed that the Jazz and OKC had discussions about Harden, and hadnt yet arrived at a suitable deal for eother side, and Houston came in and made an offer they couldn't refuse, I believe that.

Houstons offer was pretty weak, Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, 2 firsts and a 2nd.

[wapiti]

If its being portrayed that the Jazz and OKC had discussions about Harden, and hadnt yet arrived at a suitable deal for either side, and Houston came in and made an offer they couldn't refuse, I believe that.

That's the silly part. Houston didn't make an offer OKC couldn't refuse. OKC settled for a bad offer from Houston. Anyone saying the asking price was too high for Utah to make a deal is wrong. We know the asking price because all the Jazz had to do was beat Houston's offer. Two promising young future contributors (not Favors or Heyward) and some protected picks. That's what the Jazz needed to offer.

[MarkGrace]

That's the silly part. Houston didn't make an offer OKC couldn't refuse. OKC settled for a bad offer from Houston. Anyone saying the asking price was too high for Utah to make a deal is wrong. We know the asking price because all the Jazz had to do was beat Houston's offer. Two promising young future contributors (not Favors or Heyward) and some protected picks. That's what the Jazz needed to offer.

Well, that's only part of the consideration. The other was the contract and whether he was worth it. Easy answer now, but not so much at the time.

Also, that wasn't the Houston deal. The Houston deal was a current player to replace Harden's production so they wouldn't drop off, a prospect at his position, and picks that if they had protection weren't lotto protected since OKC ended up with a lotto pick this year.

I think Locke's indication was they were kind of slowly vetting out the process because of some factors and Houston swooped in ready to get it done right away.

[cougjunkie]

Mo Williams signs with the Blazers.

[smokymountainrain]

I'm on record saying the Jazz should have traded for Harden as early as March 2012. I saw the writing on the wall that OKC was going to move him, and you don't see Harden's kind of confidence, shooting ability and court vision often.

And you didn't even mention his biggest strength. It's his ability to get to the FT line that sets him apart and makes him a special player.

[SandYFan]

And you didn't even mention his biggest strength. It's his ability to get to the FT line that sets him apart and makes him a special player.

You're right, I forgot that.

Is it crazy to think the Thunder would be a much better team with Harden and not Westbrook?

[Donuthole]

I'll say it--I'm still not a believer in Harden as a #1 option. He's a fine #2, and he's certainly better than anyone the Jazz have, but I don't lose sleep over not trading away too much for him. I want a max player to be a two-way player, and I haven't seen anything from Harden defensively that makes he think he's anything more than an average defender, at best.

[MarkGrace]

I'll say it--I'm still not a believer in Harden as a #1 option. He's a fine #2, and he's certainly better than anyone the Jazz have, but I don't lose sleep over not trading away too much for him. I want a max player to be a two-way player, and I haven't seen anything from Harden defensively that makes he think he's anything more than an average defender, at best.

How is he not a #1 option? Dude was the 5th leading scorer in the league. 26 ppg, deft handle, great SnR player, sees the floor as well as any 2-guard in the league, etc.

Knowing what we know now, I would have given up some good pieces for him and maxed him out. At the time I can see why the Jazz were a little more hesitant to jump all over it.

[wapiti]

Well, that's only part of the consideration. The other was the contract and whether he was worth it. Easy answer now, but not so much at the time.

Also, that wasn't the Houston deal. The Houston deal was a current player to replace Harden's production so they wouldn't drop off, a prospect at his position, and picks that if they had protection weren't lotto protected since OKC ended up with a lotto pick this year.

I think Locke's indication was they were kind of slowly vetting out the process because of some factors and Houston swooped in ready to get it done right away.

Protected picks don't have to be lotto protected. Top 5 protected is a legit protection that the Jazz could have required. Giving up the Golden State pick (in November when it was more valuable) or their own pick (also less valuable with James Harden on the roster) would have been better than the picks Houston offered.

[Donuthole]

How is he not a #1 option? Dude was the 5th leading scorer in the league. 26 ppg, deft handle, great SnR player, sees the floor as well as any 2-guard in the league, etc.

Knowing what we know now, I would have given up some good pieces for him and maxed him out. At the time I can see why the Jazz were a little more hesitant to jump all over it.

Sorry my wording was poor. He's certainly a #1 option offensively. I don't believe in him as the best player on a championship team.

[MarkGrace]

Protected picks don't have to be lotto protected. Top 5 protected is a legit protection that the Jazz could have required. Giving up the Golden State pick (in November when it was more valuable) or their own pick (also less valuable with James Harden on the roster) would have been better than the picks Houston offered.

You always come through with Captain Obvious stuff.

Jazz easily could have offered a better package (assuming they weren't hell-bent on an instant contributor on the wing). I'm not questioning that.

EDIT: In the previous post I said if it was protected it wasn't lotto protected because I didn't want to look up the actual protection and they clearly landed a lotto pick. I just looked up the protection and it was only top 3 (and decreased by year until becoming completely unprotected) and coming from Toronto, not Houston. That's as valuable as any pick the Jazz could have given at the time, and much more valuable than the GS pick. The second pick is coming from Dallas and is top 20 protected -- so obviously this is a low value 1st rounder.

[Jacob]

This is my question. Remember, last summer the Jazz thought they may have a three-headed monster with Sap/Favors/Big Al, there were still questions as to who they wanted to keep, etc. so the dialogue of what packages were presented definitely weren't as clear then as they are now. I can see the Jazz having second thoughts then about including Millsap, Hayward and future firsts for Harden. Would OKC have insisted on Favors? I probably would have, as last year, I would have had to think about it.

If its being portrayed that the Jazz and OKC had discussions about Harden, and hadn't yet arrived at a suitable deal for either side, and Houston came in and made an offer they couldn't refuse, I believe that.

No, I don't remember that. I only remember the discussion being that Favors needed the playing time and that Al or Paul had to be traded for whatever value they could get. There should have never been any thought that all 3 would be on the Jazz this year. It didn't matter who got traded. Whoever had the most value should have been traded. But this is just more broken record from me. I was saying it for 2 years, I said it when Harden was traded, and I'm sorry to bore those who've heard it before.

[MarkGrace]

Ranking teams by their U-25 talent. Jazz come in 3 behind OKC and NO.

3. Utah Jazz




Players: Trey Burke (20), Alec Burks (22), Derrick Favors (22), Rudy Gobert (21), Gordon Hayward (23), Enes Kanter (21)

Although they lack a single player ranked in the top 25 under 25, I have the Jazz third on this list for two reasons. First, Favors is quickly laying claim to the mantle of "most underrated player in the league" by virtue of playing for the small-market Jazz. He's a top-shelf athlete with excellent length and an improving post game, and also serves as a team defensive anchor and rim protector. Second, Utah has diversified talent; that is to say, the Jazz have players who bring different things to the table at different positions: Hayward as a shooter, Burks as a combo guard, Burke as a scoring point guard and Kanter as a talented face-up 4. The advantage gained by this is that each player has the room to grow their game into natural areas of team need without cannibalizing their minutes.

Outside of those core players, Gobert is an athletic freak who has the potential to be a game-changing talent on the defensive end. He won't see much time initially, but that's a good thing for a player whose game needs refining.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story...-25-talent-nba

[MarkGrace]

Jonathan Givony @DraftExpress 1h
Great hire for Utah in Justin Zanik. One of the smartest agents in the business. Will be a great asset for them w/the cap/contracts and more

New assistant GM.