"You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

Why would the number be $2.4m?

I thought he had a player option, but now I see that it is a team option? So it is a team option that is only partially guaranteed? I guess I'm not familiar with his contract.

Yep. Partial guarantee. They can cut him and only pay him $2.4 M. They're working on trades just to try to limit their cap number as much as possible, but if something doesn't work out they're not on the hook for the $8.2 M or whatever it is.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

Spence Checketss saying Jazz are working the phones, but insisting they are trying to move "contracts, not assets".

That is where the trade exception value should be used, in helping to unload a contract like Jefferson's. Rumors out of Chicago are that they are calling teams about Deng, Boozer, or Noah, but no team has been willing to give them a pick + cap relief for one of those three. Utah could offer Jefferson and the GS pick for Deng and Korver, sending $15 M of expiring money to Chicago in exchange for Utah taking on $19 M this year and $14 M the next.

Deng isn't worth that money, but he's an elite wing defender, it balances the roster out. It limits the cap flexibility they'd have next off-season, but that isn't as necessary if they've already added someone like Deng. I just can't see them being able to move Jefferson unless they are using the exception to take more salary back.

[The_Douger]

This is going to end badly if we trade Millsap for an older player, who isn't a big, and who is on the downside of their career.

Utah needs to sit tight. There will be a take for Jefferson at the trade deadline to dump cap space. They don't have to make a move right now.

[The_Douger]

Spence Checketss saying Jazz are working the phones, but insisting they are trying to move "contracts, not assets".

That is where the trade exception value should be used, in helping to unload a contract like Jefferson's. Rumors out of Chicago are that they are calling teams about Deng, Boozer, or Noah, but no team has been willing to give them a pick + cap relief for one of those three. Utah could offer Jefferson and the GS pick for Deng and Korver, sending $15 M of expiring money to Chicago in exchange for Utah taking on $19 M this year and $14 M the next.

Deng isn't worth that money, but he's an elite wing defender, it balances the roster out. It limits the cap flexibility they'd have next off-season, but that isn't as necessary if they've already added someone like Deng. I just can't see them being able to move Jefferson unless they are using the exception to take more salary back.

This is my preference. These are the types of deals O'Connor needs to be looking at, not redundant pieces like Mo Williams, who has nearly the same stats as Devin Harris.

[Maximus]

This is going to end badly if we trade Millsap for an older player, who isn't a big, and who is on the downside of their career.

Utah needs to sit tight. There will be a take for Jefferson at the trade deadline to dump cap space. They don't have to make a move right now.

they do need to trade at least one big before the season. You bet your ass favors wont start unless they do.

[MarkGrace]

Why the is comparison Mo Williams to Devin Harris? My guess is he'd be coming off the bench, and he's still a heck of a lot more productive than Watson or Tinsley. He'd also be the best shooter on the roster.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

Why the is comparison Mo Williams to Devin Harris? My guess is he'd be coming off the bench, and he's still a heck of a lot more productive than Watson or Tinsley. He'd also be the best shooter on the roster.

We can only hope...

But even if he does, get ready for a lot of Harris/Williams together in the back court. One guy who doesn't care about anything anymore, and the other who doesn't even pretend like he plays defense because all he wants to do is shoot when his team gets the ball back.

[The_Douger]

they do need to trade at least one big before the season. You bet your ass favors wont start unless they do.

I'd prefer to keep Millsap over Jefferson, who I think is a black hole of empty stats. That said, I think Millsap is the easier to trade of the two. He has a better contract and is nearly as productive. If they end up keeping them, then Millsap needs to be off the bench to lead the 2nd unit.

But ya, it won't happen.

Why the is comparison Mo Williams to Devin Harris? My guess is he'd be coming off the bench, and he's still a heck of a lot more productive than Watson or Tinsley. He'd also be the best shooter on the roster.

I'm not a big fan of point guards in general, I just don't think you need them to win in the NBA. Wings and big men are what matters. I'd just as soon continue with Devin Harris splitting time with Watson than add Mo Williams to the mix, who plays similarly to Harris and will want to start. I could see that guy crying, whining, and pouting if he doesn't.

I'd be more interested in trying to add an elite wing at the cost of throwing in a guy like Hayward with one of our bigs and the rade exception.

[Jacob]

Why the is comparison Mo Williams to Devin Harris? My guess is he'd be coming off the bench, and he's still a heck of a lot more productive than Watson or Tinsley. He'd also be the best shooter on the roster.

That shouldn't be the comparison unless the one is being traded for the other, or the one is replacing the other, who is to be traded.
You are right that Mo is more productive than a lot of Jazz players. My objection is that he doesn't make the Jazz much better this year. So what's the point? Why waste 8.5m and a supposedly valuable trade exception if you aren't going to make the Jazz a real competitor in the playoffs in the only year of Mo's contract? The jazz have no need for another expiring contract for other reasons. They've got lots of those.

Spence Checketss saying Jazz are working the phones, but insisting they are trying to move "contracts, not assets".

That is where the trade exception value should be used, in helping to unload a contract like Jefferson's. Rumors out of Chicago are that they are calling teams about Deng, Boozer, or Noah, but no team has been willing to give them a pick + cap relief for one of those three. Utah could offer Jefferson and the GS pick for Deng and Korver, sending $15 M of expiring money to Chicago in exchange for Utah taking on $19 M this year and $14 M the next.

I would be very amused if Jefferson and Boozer could ever play on the same team.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

I would be very amused if Jefferson and Boozer could ever play on the same team.

Yeah, that Chicago scenario would never work because the Bulls really want to keep Asik, and it'd give them Noah, Boozer, Jefferson, and Asik. But it was one team I was just reading about wanting to move salaries. Utah is in a good spot to be able to get talent back via taking back more salary because of all of the expiring contracts and trade exception.

[MarkGrace]

That shouldn't be the comparison unless the one is being traded for the other, or the one is replacing the other, who is to be traded.
You are right that Mo is more productive than a lot of Jazz players. My objection is that he doesn't make the Jazz much better this year. So what's the point? Why waste 8.5m and a supposedly valuable trade exception if you aren't going to make the Jazz a real competitor in the playoffs in the only year of Mo's contract? The jazz have no need for another expiring contract for other reasons. They've got lots of those.

The 8.5m is pretty inconsequential this year and the TPE is going to go to waste unless they do something with it soon. They do have until December to use it, but once summer passes, there's not going to be much activity until close to the next deadline, at which point it will have already lapsed. I know we all think that KOC should be able to turn that TPE into a big-scoring wing or another key piece of the core that's going to help transform the team, but that's just not going to happen. So I guess the point is to incrementally improve the team before the TPE goes to waste -- I would love to see them get something more for it, but if Mo is what they get, then I just have to assume they tried to see what was out there and that's what they turned up.

I think Mo improves our backup PG play, bench in general, and shooting. And he does it without really impacting what they can do going into this year and keeps their flexibility for the following FA season. I think their trajectory is pretty well set: they want to take another year to get a feel for the 4 young guys and then be a major player in FA to add around them. Which is why they're not looking to use the TPE to shed salary right now -- it does them no real good. I think they'll try and find ways to make small improvements to the team (like Mo) but we'll mostly come back with the same squad. I'd say there's a greater likelihood we see moving approaching the next trade deadline.

[Jacob]

The 8.5m is pretty inconsequential this year and the TPE is going to go to waste unless they do something with it soon. They do have until December to use it, but once summer passes, there's not going to be much activity until close to the next deadline, at which point it will have already lapsed. I know we all think that KOC should be able to turn that TPE into a big-scoring wing or another key piece of the core that's going to help transform the team, but that's just not going to happen. So I guess the point is to incrementally improve the team before the TPE goes to waste -- I would love to see them get something more for it, but if Mo is what they get, then I just have to assume they tried to see what was out there and that's what they turned up.

I think Mo improves our backup PG play, bench in general, and shooting. And he does it without really impacting what they can do going into this year and keeps their flexibility for the following FA season. I think their trajectory is pretty well set: they want to take another year to get a feel for the 4 young guys and then be a major player in FA to add around them. Which is why they're not looking to use the TPE to shed salary right now -- it does them no real good. I think they'll try and find ways to make small improvements to the team (like Mo) but we'll mostly come back with the same squad. I'd say there's a greater likelihood we see moving approaching the next trade deadline.

I disagree. I don't think the trade exception is especially valuable just like I don't think "expiring contract" are especially valuable. I'm on the record with that position. I'm not analyzing this trade based on the value of the exception, only on the value of Mo.

Say Mo improves the team slightly for one year. What's the point? Why would an owner sign off on adding $8.5 m in salary to improve a team slightly for a single year with no future benefit if the improvement doesn't make the team competitive at the top of its conference? Why not pocket the 8.5m and use it next year to spend a little more than you otherwise would have?

A move has to be made at some time regarding the exception and the expiring contracts or you get nothing out of them. It has been my opinion that the expiring contracts are actually losing value as time goes on, as those players are real contributors. I am merely agreeing with KOC's comment yesterday that BGR posted. Let's not to something like this that has no real future benefit. Lets not use an asset merely because someone has made an offer.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

Say Mo improves the team slightly for one year. What's the point? Why would an owner sign off on adding $8.5 m in salary to improve a team slightly for a single year with no future benefit if the improvement doesn't make the team competitive at the top of its conference? Why not pocket the 8.5m and use it next year to spend a little more than you otherwise would have?

Especially when the trade that might help you win an extra game or two ends up helping two teams in your conference add players more talented than what your team is getting (Odom to LA, whatever max free agent Dallas adds). That's why the deal shouldn't be made unless other considerations, and not just cash, are given to the Jazz.

[MarkGrace]

Say Mo improves the team slightly for one year. What's the point? Why would an owner sign off on adding $8.5 m in salary to improve a team slightly for a single year with no future benefit if the improvement doesn't make the team competitive at the top of its conference? Why not pocket the 8.5m and use it next year to spend a little more than you otherwise would have?

I think the point is what you said: to improve the team slightly. I'm guessing they'll want to try and field a more competitive team than last year, even if that doesn't mean making a jump to the top of the conference.

The second part I don't really follow. They can't really do much in FA this year, so Mo doesn't really change that. And they have a ton of money next summer, and Mo doesn't change that either. What does pocketing 8.5M this year get you the following year? I don't understand what you're saying there. The Jazz will spend somehwere up close to the cap this year, and then they'll do the same the following year. Pocketing 8.5M doesn't really impact anything there.

A move has to be made at some time regarding the exception and the expiring contracts or you get nothing out of them. It has been my opinion that the expiring contracts are actually losing value as time goes on, as those players are real contributors. I am merely agreeing with KOC's comment yesterday that BGR posted. Let's not to something like this that has no real future benefit. Lets not use an asset merely because someone has made an offer.

I guess I'm not following this either. So a move has to be made at some point with the exception, but let's not make a move when we have an offer? When are you planning on using it and for what? Or would you rather just not use it all?

[MarkGrace]

Especially when the trade that might help you win an extra game or two ends up helping two teams in your conference add players more talented than what your team is getting (Odom to LA, whatever max free agent Dallas adds). That's why the deal shouldn't be made unless other considerations, and not just cash, are given to the Jazz.

I see that. My immediate tought when Sizzle texted me was "Cuban is trying to clear cap space for Deron." But I'm not sure adding Odom and Deron to those teams greatly impacts where the Jazz are headed. How many years out are the Jazz from being a real contender if they become one at all? I'm saying at least two and probably more like 3-4. Kobe's gone, Dirk's gone, what are those teams up to? I guess you assume they both have money and will always be palyers, but that's going to be the case no matter what.