"You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

Perhaps it's because I'm such a damn Burks apologist, but I don't get why so many Jazz fans think Hayward needs to be a two. He's a semi-athletic 6'8" who seems like the prototypical SF to me. IIRC, it seems like we've had this discussion before, but maybe I need a refresher. Are there advanced stats out there showing Hayward is a better two than a three?

We might perceive it similarly, but I'm not sure I'd call Hayward semi-athletic. He's not elite in a league of elite athletes, but some his dunks over people and chase down blocks have been really impressive. He won't move as well laterally as some of the small SGs he'd have to guard, but I think his agility is at least on par with most of the 6'7-6'8" guys he'll play against.

He's athletic enough to hold his own at SG, he'll have a size advantage against many opponents, his all-around game suits the guard line well. Though as we say a lot on this forum, the difference between SG and SF isn't very big in most systems. What Hayward at SG does for the team is lets someone like Marvin play next to him, more length and size = better help, choking passing lanes on defense, hopefully better rebounding.

[MarkGrace]

I don't understand why Hollinger and Simmons are acting like this is an awful deal, unless they thought having a starting back-court of Harris and Williams was going to work defensively. Harris was not a good fit in Utah and a change of scenery will probably benefit both Harris and Marvin.

I don't see where it's assumed that Marvin will pick up the player option next year either like some writers are suggesting.

My guess is he will. He's not going to get more than 7.5 per year on the open market, and picking up only takes him to 28 -- enough time for another multi-year deal in there.

The other considerations are what BGR mentioned with a potential buyout, and the Jazz still having an amnesty option if they get in a pickle (assuming they can dump Roger w/o using that).

[MarkGrace]

Hayward is clearly more than semi-athletic, but I decided I was done quibbling about G-Time.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

I can see why Hollinger would say Utah should get something extra out of the deal. Marvin isn't a clear cut upgrade, and he's got the extra year of salary. It would seem at least a 2nd round pick or two would be moved. Similar to how Utah took on the worst salary and got the lesser player (Odom v. Mo) in the earlier trade, and yet it was another team getting cash and semi-worthless picks.

[Jacob]

I don't understand why Hollinger and Simmons are acting like this is an awful deal, unless they thought having a starting back-court of Harris and Williams was going to work defensively. Harris was not a good fit in Utah and a change of scenery will probably benefit both Harris and Marvin.

I don't see where it's assumed that Marvin will pick up the player option next year either like some writers are suggesting. If he does, it's a decent expiring contract that we could probably get rid of if we really wanted a free agent or re-sign a player.

Your understanding will probably be full after you watch marvin play a dozen our so games for the jazz. But I hope not.

[Donuthole]

I don't understand why Hollinger and Simmons are acting like this is an awful deal, unless they thought having a starting back-court of Harris and Williams was going to work defensively. Harris was not a good fit in Utah and a change of scenery will probably benefit both Harris and Marvin.

I don't see where it's assumed that Marvin will pick up the player option next year either like some writers are suggesting. If he does, it's a decent expiring contract that we could probably get rid of if we really wanted a free agent or re-sign a player.

First, it's a no brainier that he picks up the option. 7.5 million under the current CBA is appreciably more than 7.5 million under the old CBA. He'll be lucky to get 5 million a year these days, and probably closer to 4.

Second, Harris was (and is) a more productive player both offensively and defensively than Mo. But ill give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it s a push between those two. These two moves mean Utah has paid a trade exception to stay pat at PG and bring in an extra 7.5 million in 2013-14 salary without adding a single impact player and without picking up a single draft pick. When you trade straight across and take back salary, and especially when you are facilitating other teams' trades for better players, you should be getting something for your efforts.

Finally, based on your statement, I'm not sure you correctly understand the value (or relative lack thereof) of an expiring contract.

[Maximus]

I am becoming more and more sure that trading Jefferson would be the best thing to do. He is ball hog.

[Jacob]

A thought occurred to me. We all know that Utah is not a destination free agency franchise, so players need good reasons to come to Utah when the money isn't blowing them away. So, modest improvements in this year's team may make it more likely that the Jazz are able to land a free agent next year. With modest improvements, the Jazz could compete for 5th or 4th seed and possibly advance to the 2nd round of the playoffs. While I'm not huge on the playoff experience factor, having proven competitive, they may be more likely to attract free agents in the off season.

This is my Jazz fan rationalization of the day.

[MarkGrace]

A thought occurred to me. We all know that Utah is not a destination free agency franchise, so players need good reasons to come to Utah when the money isn't blowing them away. So, modest improvements in this year's team may make it more likely that the Jazz are able to land a free agent next year. With modest improvements, the Jazz could compete for 5th or 4th seed and possibly advance to the 2nd round of the playoffs. While I'm not huge on the playoff experience factor, having proven competitive, they may be more likely to attract free agents in the off season.

This is my Jazz fan rationalization of the day.

ha. I like it.

Though I agree that if the Jazz hit the 4-6 seed this year and maybe win a round, it certainly looks like a more attractive situation for a FA, especially considering the age of the Hayward/Favors/Burks/Kanter group. But I'm rationalizing most of the time.

And speaking of those four, I'm pretty anxious to see what Kanter does next year. I feel like I have less feel for who he is as a player than the other four. All the other guys I feel like I have some idea of what they are or will become, but for some reason Kanter still really feels up in the air to me.

[Jacob]

I love how David Locke thinks that KOC is nearly the smartest man alive because, before doing any trade he asks himself, "will this make the team better?" Such a ponderous man is likely to be right just about every time. What I can't understand is why KOC speaks of this secret so publicly. Doesn't he think some other GM might catch on? One day, one of them is going to begin asking himself the same question, and then what happens? GM's everywhere making trades with the primary intention of improving their teams, either now or in the near future. Armageddon. Then KOC and his team will have to start looking at advanced metrics, I suppose. They'll have no advantage.

[kimchicoug]

Mr. BYU-Hawaii Chad Ford says KOC is one of the Top 5 GMs in the league

Chad Ford @chadfordinsider
Kevin O'Connor one of the top 5 GMs in the NBA. Does this every year. Aggressive + smart + low risk RT @G_Faylor: Utah deserves a shoutout

I agree. KOC is smart and has rebuilt the Jazz in a hurry.

[Jacob]

Mr. BYU-Hawaii Chad Ford says KOC is one of the Top 5 GMs in the league

Chad Ford @chadfordinsider
Kevin O'Connor one of the top 5 GMs in the NBA. Does this every year. Aggressive + smart + low risk RT @G_Faylor: Utah deserves a shoutout

I agree. KOC is smart and has rebuilt the Jazz in a hurry.

Emphasis on the low risk.
And remind me how he was aggressive last year? I'm not saying he's bad, just that Chad Ford is a homer for the Jazz.

[Blueintheface]

And speaking of those four, I'm pretty anxious to see what Kanter does next year. I feel like I have less feel for who he is as a player than the other four. All the other guys I feel like I have some idea of what they are or will become, but for some reason Kanter still really feels up in the air to me.

I agree, his future is still a mystery to me as well. He showed glimpses of a mid-range game, used his one post move effectively, and was a ball magnet but still with all that he was an enigma. IMO he needs to lose the bulk. He was a bull in a china shop last year and didn't show the lift he once had during his limited European experience. He runs the floor hard but I think he could do well to drop 10-15 lbs.

BTW, do we know if any of the summer league stuff is televised? I can't wait to see this new team this fall.

[Jacob]

I agree, his future is still a mystery to me as well. He showed glimpses of a mid-range game, used his one post move effectively, and was a ball magnet but still with all that he was an enigma. IMO he needs to lose the bulk. He was a bull in a china shop last year and didn't show the lift he once had during his limited European experience. He runs the floor hard but I think he could do well to drop 10-15 lbs.

BTW, do we know if any of the summer league stuff is televised? I can't wait to see this new team this fall.

I really don't understand why anyone would think this. The kid is well-built and has very low body fat. Losing 10-15 pounds won't make him jump an inch higher or appreciably faster in any sense. It won't make his reaction time quicker on those put-backs he always got blocked on. Why isn't anyone calling for Dwight Howard to lose 10-15 pounds? I can't see any reason to think Kanter's weight is any sort of a problem.

Are you proposing he intentionally stop lifting weights and start running long distances in an attempt to lose muscle mass? Why?

[kimchicoug]

Emphasis on the low risk.
And remind me how he was aggressive last year? I'm not saying he's bad, just that Chad Ford is a homer for the Jazz.

You can't be aggressive every single year. He saw he had a young team and wanted to evaluate each player and have his core grow together and mature. Sounds like a good plan to me.