"You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

Harden has been much better on defense tonight. He's stayed in front of the ball much better than what I saw against the Spurs.

[smokymountainrain]

Harden has been much better on defense tonight. He's stayed in front of the ball much better than what I saw against the Spurs.

21 pts on 11 shots tonight. It's a shame he can't really showcase his scoring ability playing with Westbrook.

[MarkGrace]

Derrick Favors - Dowel Drill
Good news for Jazz fans, Derrick Favors is hungry for work and has retained much of what he learned and gained at P3 last off-season. Compared to his initial assessment last June, Derrick is much better at maintaining hip and trunk position through dynamic movements, he gets more hip extensor moments and consistently reaches peak force faster...Check out Derrick on the dowel test. We use this test to evaluate the ability of the nervous system to fire and relax, as well as quality of ground contacts. Derrick is the highest scoring big man that we have tested.
— with Derrick Favors.

After leading the Utah Jazz to the playoffs and having his best all around season, Al Jefferson is back in at P3 looking to get better!..Al is currently undergoing performance testing and movement fingerprinting. This will allow us to know how his exact physical systems work at this cross section in time.

Alec Burks
Wrapping up our second week of work with Alec Burks and Enes Kanter. Both have made nice gains and both have significant physical development upside...In this "complex pair" we are looking to enhance Alec's muscle recruitment through a wide range of motion during power based movements. With better support structures, mechanics and a more efficient nervous system Alec will become an even more explosive athlete. — with Alec Burks at P3.

https://www.facebook.com/PeakPerformanceProject

[The_Douger]

I think I agree with you and donut on principle. You shouldn't pay the max to a guy who plays 28-31 mpg. In my opinion Ginobili has been a max player in terms of skill and potential impact, but he should have 35 mpg in order to justify that. Same goes for a Harden - play him 35-40 mpg and make him your primary wing scorer, an argument could be made that he's a max or near max guy. As a scorer, he could be special - better than Manu. Plus he has the ball handling and all-around skills of Ginobili. I don't think 22-26 ppg efficiently is a stretch in terms of Harden's potential.

I'd max him and move Jefferson or Millsap for him, with picks and whatever else they want.

Problem is, OKC would never do it.

[smokymountainrain]

I'd max him and move Jefferson or Millsap for him, with picks and whatever else they want.

Problem is, OKC would never do it.

I agree. OKC will find a way to keep him.

[BGRTHNUMEGO]

Odom (ETO), Carter (ETO), Beaubois, the 17th pick for Al Jefferson

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2012/6/...s-al-jefferson

Got to love when a Mavs blog gives a dream trade to Utah. Drop salary way down, get into the first round, have a young guard with some potential around for a while, and clear out the front court issues. Draft Terrence Ross at 17, amnesty Harris, and then sign Deron and Gerald Wallace to complete the fleecing of the Nets. #2 seed in the West here we come.

[smokymountainrain]

Odom (ETO), Carter (ETO), Beaubois, the 17th pick for Al Jefferson

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2012/6/...s-al-jefferson

Got to love when a Mavs blog gives a dream trade to Utah. Drop salary way down, get into the first round, have a young guard with some potential around for a while, and clear out the front court issues. Draft Terrence Ross at 17, amnesty Harris, and then sign Deron and Gerald Wallace to complete the fleecing of the Nets. #2 seed in the West here we come.

Beaubois and 17 for Jefferson or Millsap? Dream trade, indeed.

[The_Douger]

Jefferson is such a scrub.

That dude is empty numbers.

[Jacob]

I don't think so. Harden and Ginobili are both good enough to be a second banana. But teams who pay their second bananas max contracts usually end up regretting it later in the deal (either because the player regresses or because of the impacts on their salary cap). Just my opinion, but I see Hardena and Ginobili both as 10-12 million players. Not the 15-17 million that max players end up getting in the last years of their deal.

What is the new max? I don't think Harden would be eligible for a max around 15 or 17m. The most a team could offer him would be 12.9 (that was the number this year, and it goes up or down based on revenues - 25% of cap) with 4.5% pay increases for the next 3 years. OKC can offer a 5th year and raises of 7.5%.

So, assuming the max is $12.9m, I'd say he's close to a max player and the Jazz could afford him based on the fact that their young players won't be up for big raises until the 3rd and 4th year of Harden's next deal. You'd prefer to pay him less, of course, but it wouldn't hurt a team like the Jazz to over-pay for him. But the Jazz don't have the cap room unless they could trade away Jefferson for less than a couple million in salaries in return, or amnesty him. I'd be in favor of all that.

[Donuthole]

What is the new max? I don't think Harden would be eligible for a max around 15 or 17m. The most a team could offer him would be 12.9 (that was the number this year, and it goes up or down based on revenues - 25% of cap) with 4.5% pay increases for the next 3 years. OKC can offer a 5th year and raises of 7.5%.

So, assuming the max is $12.9m, I'd say he's close to a max player and the Jazz could afford him based on the fact that their young players won't be up for big raises until the 3rd and 4th year of Harden's next deal. You'd prefer to pay him less, of course, but it wouldn't hurt a team like the Jazz to over-pay for him. But the Jazz don't have the cap room unless they could trade away Jefferson for less than a couple million in salaries in return, or amnesty him. I'd be in favor of all that.

Yeah, my numbers reflect what I think his value is under the old CBA. So adjust them to reflect the new CBA. If 13-15 is the new max, then I think Harden is a 9-11 million player.

[MarkGrace]

I would take a chance on Brandon Roy.

[Jacob]

I would take a chance on Brandon Roy.

Me too.

[CardiacCoug]

Jefferson is such a scrub.

That dude is empty numbers.

What the hell does that mean? He finished 12th in the league in PER and tied with Kobe for 10th in EWA at 12.7 -- meaning he gave the Jazz 12.7 more wins than they would have had from a replacement player. Jefferson and Millsap are fine. The problem with the Jazz is the rest of the team -- the only other top 100 PER player on the team was Favors at 84 and he didn't play enough.

[smokymountainrain]

What the hell does that mean? He finished 12th in the league in PER and tied with Kobe for 10th in EWA at 12.7 -- meaning he gave the Jazz 12.7 more wins than they would have had from a replacement player. Jefferson and Millsap are fine. The problem with the Jazz is the rest of the team -- the only other top 100 PER player on the team was Favors at 84 and he didn't play enough.

Agreed. The biggest problem Millsap/Jefferson create is taking minutes from Favors. Jefferson, beyond the numbers you cited, gives the Jazz somebody they can throw the ball into in the post when they are having trouble running the offense. Having a guy like that who you can rely on to get points outside of any set play is extremely valuable at times, IMO.

I think the Jazz should look to move one of the two in order to 1)get Favors more minutes and 2)they happen to have the most value on the team outside of Favors.

[CardiacCoug]

Agreed. The biggest problem Millsap/Jefferson create is taking minutes from Favors. Jefferson, beyond the numbers you cited, gives the Jazz somebody they can throw the ball into in the post when they are having trouble running the offense. Having a guy like that who you can rely on to get points outside of any set play is extremely valuable at times, IMO.

I think the Jazz should look to move one of the two in order to 1)get Favors more minutes and 2)they happen to have the most value on the team outside of Favors.

Yeah that makes sense. The Jazz need more athletic defenders and more shooting/scoring. If they can turn Sap or Jefferson into that and free up more playing time for Favors I'm good with that.