"You Gotta Love It Baby" Official Jazz thread

[wapiti]

Hopefully the jazz don't overpay. That way they can let him walk, replace him this offseason with someone equally productive that is willing to come to utah for less money that the jazz would be paying GH, and then still have more flexibility in future off seasons to go after the biggest free agents available that are willing to come to utah.

I would rather have Gordon Hayward than cap space.

[Jacob]

It's silly to give G-time $16 M per. He simply isn't that important to the team. He's worth about $8 M per. Like applejack said, not that big a deal to give him 3-4 million per year more, but I'd argue they would be giving him about $8 M more than they should. If he were an irreplaceable star player, sure give it to him, but since he's far from that after failing miserably in a #1 role, no reason to give it to him.

Has there ever been a time when it worked out for a team to give a role player a max deal? Any championship teams or championship contenders have role players with max deals? Any bad teams that are happy they have role players with max deals. Any middling teams happy with role players with max deals? I'm not sure. It's a sincere question.

Joe Johnson is the only one I have come up with so far. It turned out to be a good contract and he immediately improved his production. The Hawks weren't competing for a title, but Johnson was fairly paid. Then they gave him his current $113 million deal....

Worth noting also that Atlanta was seemingly overpaying for Johnson, plus they gave Phx Diaw and a first in a sign and trade. Too bad the rules didn't allow Jazz to complete s&t just before the draft.

I've gotta think Hayward has a better chance of reaching top tier status than Parsons. But Houston and Dallas are chasing title next year and Jazz are not. Big difference. Gotta think Morey is smart enough to let Parsons walk.

[New Mexican Disaster]

Hopefully the jazz don't overpay. That way they can let him walk, replace him this offseason with someone equally productive that is willing to come to utah for less money that the jazz would be paying GH, and then still have more flexibility in future off seasons to go after the biggest free agents available that are willing to come to utah.

Hah!

[Jacob]

Been looking into trade kickers since it is reported Gordon negotiated one. It appears it doesn't matter at all.

Trade kickers don’t do much to help the most well-compensated players. The bonus can’t push a player’s salary above the maximum salary, even if the player is already making more than the max.

Even if it could count, player option years don't count.

So I don't know why anyone is reporting the trade kicker with respect to Hayward unless the offer is actually less than the max. Should have any effect on whether the Jazz would be able to trade him.

I've also seen reporting that he couldn't be traded for a year. But the rule is only that he can't be traded till December 15. All according to cbafaq.com

[cougjunkie]

Been looking into trade kickers since it is reported Gordon negotiated one. It appears it doesn't matter at all.
Even if it could count, player option years don't count.

So I don't know why anyone is reporting the trade kicker with respect to Hayward unless the offer is actually less than the max. Should have any effect on whether the Jazz would be able to trade him.

I've also seen reporting that he couldn't be traded for a year. But the rule is only that he can't be traded till December 15. All according to cbafaq.com

The minute the Jazz match he becomes untradeable until the last year of his deal. Nobody wants him for that price.

[MartyFunkhouser]

The minute the Jazz match he becomes untradeable until the last year of his deal. Nobody wants him for that price.

That's not true at all. Jordan wants him for that price.

[byu71]

That's not true at all. Jordan wants him for that price.

How much of the Hornets does Jordan own? His tune might be different if the bulk of the money he was spending was his own.

I would much rather go into business with Magic than Michael.

[clackamascoug]

I agree the Blazers wouldn't be better with GH, that's probably why they aren't offering.

When you say "we" do you mean that The Blazers are now "our team" and not just "my" team?

Curious minds need to know.

[MarkGrace]

The minute the Jazz match he becomes untradeable until the last year of his deal. Nobody wants him for that price.

I agree with that. Nobody is trading for a somewhat lesser version of Chandler Parsons on a max deal.

[byu71]

If they match the offer I won't be buying season tickets. One thing might change my mind. If they upgrade their home schedule, then I might buy them.

[Jacob]

The minute the Jazz match he becomes untradeable until the last year of his deal. Nobody wants him for that price.

As has been pointed out, we know at least one team wants him at that price. If he has a good first 3 months to this season, I think there will be several teams very interested.

Trade him to Charlotte in December for Micheal Kidd and/or Cody Zeller and/or future 1st.

One team that was rumored to be interested in a max deal for him was the Cavaliers. I can imagine something creative happening to try to make numbers work on a deal to get Gordon alongside Lebron with the Jazz taking back Waiters or Bennet and a future 1st. The numbers would be hard though.

If Houston matches Parsons, Dallas may end up very interested in Gordon at that price.

[byu71]

As has been pointed out, we know at least one team wants him at that price. If he has a good first 3 months to this season, I think there will be several teams very interested.

Trade him to Charlotte in December for Micheal Kidd and/or Cody Zeller and/or future 1st.

One team that was rumored to be interested in a max deal for him was the Cavaliers. I can imagine something creative happening to try to make numbers work on a deal to get Gordon alongside Lebron with the Jazz taking back Waiters or Bennet and a future 1st. The numbers would be hard though.

If Houston matches Parsons, Dallas may end up very interested in Gordon at that price.

Yes and if he has his typical good Gordon, bad Gordon, very average Gordon first 3 months we are stuck with him.

[smokymountainrain]

DJ and PK had a guy on the radio today - a national guy who is apparently known for his advanced metrics stuff and he was trumpeting the same tune I have been the last few days, but to a large extent. My argument is that you're getting a guy who isn't improving. Who has been in the league for 4 years, just 24, but hasn't improved in the last 3 years. This guy took it a step further and said that Hayward as actually regressed since his rookie season and based on that the Jazz shouldn't match. I'm not sure what numbers he's looking at - I don't see the regression, but there certainly isn't any substantial improvement.

If he isn't going to improve and I think there is fairly significant evidence to suggest he won't, he shouldn't be given a max deal. If he is regressing, as this guy suggests, it moves beyond a bad deal and becomes horrific.

[smokymountainrain]

Yes and if he has his typical good Gordon, bad Gordon, very average Gordon first 3 months we are stuck with him.

And hasn't Hayward been a notoriously slow starter over his career?

[The_Douger]

Hasn't his shooting percentage decreased with each passing year? He also shot a career low from 3 last year. Turnovers were up. Boards and assists were up. I just feel like his ppg and that have improved, but there's no improving efficiency to it.

I wouldn't match this deal. I'd try and work out a sign and trade for future picks.