Las Vegas Strip - Deadliest Mass Shooting in US

[Bo Diddley]

You've probably never blown anything up either, right?

Some people get the same thrill shooting a gun as others of us get making explosions - or accelerating through a quarter mile in under 14 seconds. Do you drive a Prius too?

I've never owned a gun and rarely shoot them, but I did check one more item off of my to-do list when I shot a few rounds with an AR-15 a couple of years ago.

OK, I'll admit that this is fun. I used to be a combat engineer, and blowing stuff up never got old. It's fun to calculate charges for such things as cutting through steel beams. Shape charges followed-up by cratering charges will quickly make a road impassable. There are so many things you can do with explosives. Learning how to do urban breaching is a blast.

Shooting guns gets old fast.

[old_gregg]

guns are fun. try it you low t nerds.

[frank ryan]

guns are fun. try it you low t nerds.

Low t nerds are some of the biggest gun fans out there.

[old_gregg]

Low t nerds are some of the biggest gun fans out there.

[Walter Sobchak]

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[Topper]

OK, I'll admit that this is fun. I used to be a combat engineer, and blowing stuff up never got old. It's fun to calculate charges for such things as cutting through steel beams. Shape charges followed-up by cratering charges will quickly make a road impassable. There are so many things you can do with explosives. Learning how to do urban breaching is a blast.

Shooting guns gets old fast.

It's not my passion but there are so many styles, for a weekend warrior it takes time to become competent. Pistol, shotgun, sporting clays, small game, large game and the like.

[Goatnapper'96]

Demographics may not be on my side. As long as 'freedom loving rednecks' (your term, not mine) transfer their love of guns to offspring, maybe the culture will never change. But we've certainly seen some pretty significant recent changes in hot button issues on the right, like acceptance of homosexuality, medicare, and softening on immigration. These all were anathema to Republicans just a decade ago. Maybe the next generation on the right will come around on guns.

I think I wasn't clear. While the left and right have different opinions wrt guns- lefties would prefer as much gun control as they can get and righties want as unfettered gun rights as possible, the point of my post was that in this case the righties are on the side of liberty and freedom. In the cases you quote where the lefties position might be determined the winner, IMO it isn't because the left is "on the right side of history" or "common sense" or "reasonable" or whatever focus group approved words are tested and chosen it is because in these cases the left was on the side of liberty and freedom - or at least made a compelling enough case to convince enough who care less about lefties or righties or "being on the right side of history" or "common sense." IMO, the gun rights debate puts the righties on the side of extending liberty and the lefties on the side of trying to restrict liberty. IMO, American culture portends to supporting the argument which seeks to extend liberty and freedom. It doesn't matter how adult you think it is to come around to the lefty perspective - people who voted for Obama voted for Trump. In neither case did they "see the light" or suddenly support leftie or rightie normative political opinions. They were swayed by various other things that are amazingly complex and only useful for how much they offend Il Padrino Ute or Frank Ryan, but in my assessment of the US political cultural landscape - the long arc bends toward freedom. I get that other freedoms have been sacrificed for collective security, peace and harmony but American has had gun freedom since its inception and I think the lefties have to convince alot more than just the rednecks who love and collect guns that restricting that liberty is a good idea. The average joe non redneck is very easily persuaded by the simple argument that lefties want to take away freedom in this case regardless of how the left might wrap itself in everything from bathroom flow charts to Civil Rights re-runs.

[Goatnapper'96]

OK, I'll admit that this is fun. I used to be a combat engineer, and blowing stuff up never got old. It's fun to calculate charges for such things as cutting through steel beams. Shape charges followed-up by cratering charges will quickly make a road impassable. There are so many things you can do with explosives. Learning how to do urban breaching is a blast.

Shooting guns gets old fast.

None of it compares to a gunnery experience in the M1A1.

[cowboy]

You're telling me you're on the back of a horse bashing out replies on a forum thread?

Meh. It's not always full of action on a horse. They're self-driving, so it's easier and safer than typing replies while I drive. Also, the talk to text function has come a long way.

Tapping out replies between sketches on his notepad.

Hah! I took a picture of a horse's butt that I'll sketch and give to your wife so she'll have a sketch of her husband.

Getting back to my opinion on guns protecting us from oppression, I think it's all about the numbers. While the 'gun behind every blade of grass' quote is likely a myth, the principle remains solid. If Texas gun owners were conscripted, they would comprise a militia almost 50% larger than China's entire army. We have the world's strongest military, but even if we didn't no country has the physical resources to overthrow a potentially 100 million man army that is already armed with 3 guns per person. Granted, the probability of anyone attempting such a thing is minuscule, but it does provide a measure of security against a crazy despot thinking he could try it. I'm not saying the threat of overthrow currently exists, but I believe the sheer size of our potential militia protects us from it if the threat ever develops.

The same goes with an internal government takeover and declaration of martial law. Let's suppose Trump is some sort of Manchurian Candidate that strikes a deal with Russia and China. No dictator rises to power over an armed population, and ours would be no exception. Martial law against our will would be impossible because of the vastness of the undertaking of disarming our population.

All of this supposes only one threat, a military one, to our freedom, which I realize is not the course a dictator or group would take. We would be led slowly and stupidly into giving up our rights and freedoms if such a thing were to happen. From that perspective, guns aren't protecting us because military conflict is not really a threat. However, things change, and if they change to the point that we become embroiled in a conflict on our own soil, I think the number of guns and gun owners in this country that could be immediately called upon to act in our defense (if they are all fighting on the same side) make it impossible for any military to defeat our collective state militias.

This isn't very well written because I'm distracted (though in an office this time) and in a hurry, but I hope it conveys my opinion. I recognize I may be wrong, and that many disagree, but this is my opinion following a considerable amount of thought to my position after PAC originally questioned it.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Hah! I took a picture of a horse's butt that I'll sketch and give to your wife so she'll have a sketch of her husband.

Not the first time I have been compared to a part of a horse.

[Bo Diddley]

None of it compares to a gunnery experience in the M1A1.

I'll have to take your word for it, but short of flying a fighter jet, I can't imagine anything that's as fun as placing and blowing explosives.

[BYUMizzou]

Good bullet points JL.

I still think a massive effort at gun buybacks would be good. Nobody’s freedom is encroached upon but the total number of guns lying around waiting there for somebody to get suicidal and make use of would be reduced.

Gun owners/lovers are all in favor of gun buyback programs. Anyone with simple tools and basic mechanical ability can fabricate a working single shot "gun" for a few bucks that they can sell to the government through a bun buyback program for several hundred dollars. Guy buyback programs are fantastic for raising funds to go out and stock up on ammo or more guns.

The guy in this video has access to a CNC machine and can make a gun with $5 of materials: https://youtu.be/nyp9YPlaoow

The rest of us with basic shop tools can fabricate buy-back eligible guns with a piece of pipe and a 2X4: https://youtu.be/Q8cWsjnSAc4

[Goatnapper'96]

I'll have to take your word for it, but short of flying a fighter jet, I can't imagine anything that's as fun as placing and blowing explosives.

Nailing something with a SABOT round from 2+ miles away.

[Copelius]

Nailing something with a SABOT round from 2+ miles away.

While I grant the self worth gained from hitting a target with a direct fire weapon, there is a certain satisfaction from calling in, focusing your laser, and then watching a copperhead blow the entire turret off the target within the next few seconds.

[New Mexican Disaster]

I'll have to take your word for it, but short of flying a fighter jet, I can't imagine anything that's as fun as placing and blowing explosives.

I can imagine lots and lots of things more fun.