Las Vegas Strip - Deadliest Mass Shooting in US

[smokymountainrain]

Here is my take on guns, in bullet points (get it?):

- I own lots of guns and I enjoy hunting. Shot a nice buck last night.
- Guns do not protect us from the government. Don't kid yourself.
- Guns do not make us safer
- Guns do not lower crime
- Guns make it easier to commit suicide
- Mass shootings are a tiny fraction of gun deaths
- The most lethal guns are handguns
- Most gun control measures that people promote would do almost nothing to reduce gun violence.
- The only thing that would measurably impact gun violence would be a repeal of the 2nd amendment and confiscation of guns
- There is no way we have the political will to repeal the 2nd amendment. Too ingrained in American culture.
- Confiscating weapons would take decades and would be a disaster.

two things. I agree 100%. and I almost cried when I got the e-mail that I'd failed to draw out on the muzzleloader this year. but congrats on your buck, I guess.

[Jeff Lebowski]

two things. I agree 100%. and I almost cried when I got the e-mail that I'd failed to draw out on the muzzleloader this year. but congrats on your buck, I guess.

Not sure I will ever go back to the regular rifle hunt. You hardly ever run into other hunters on the muzzleloader hunt. And such a beautiful time of the year with the fall colors.

[smokymountainrain]

Not sure I will ever go back to the regular rifle hunt. You hardly ever run into other hunters on the muzzleloader hunt. And such a beautiful time of the year with the fall colors.

I've retired from the regular rifle hunt as well. i'll still go with my son (and I have a feeling my 9 year old daughter is taking a liking to hunting as well) as long as he wants to do it, but I think I'm done.

[Commando]

Here is my take on guns, in bullet points (get it?):

- I own lots of guns and I enjoy hunting. Shot a nice buck last night.
- Guns do not protect us from the government. Don't kid yourself.
- Guns do not make us safer
- Guns do not lower crime
- Guns make it easier to commit suicide
- Mass shootings are a tiny fraction of gun deaths
- The most lethal guns are handguns
- Most gun control measures that people promote would do almost nothing to reduce gun violence.
- The only thing that would measurably impact gun violence would be a repeal of the 2nd amendment and confiscation of guns
- There is no way we have the political will to repeal the 2nd amendment. Too ingrained in American culture.
- Confiscating weapons would take decades and would be a disaster.

This all sounds reasonable and I would agree wholeheartedly. Having said that, banning or restricting assault rifles might take away the fun of target shooting for responsible enthusiasts, but if it prevents a grotesque massacre-regardless of the actual percentage of total gun deaths it comprises- I'm all for it.

[frank ryan]

This all sounds reasonable and I would agree wholeheartedly. Having said that, banning or restricting assault rifles might take away the fun of target shooting for responsible enthusiasts, but if it prevents a grotesque massacre-regardless of the actual percentage of total gun deaths it comprises- I'm all for it.

Watch out, the NRA is on to you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrnIVVWtAag

[Jeff Lebowski]

This all sounds reasonable and I would agree wholeheartedly. Having said that, banning or restricting assault rifles might take away the fun of target shooting for responsible enthusiasts, but if it prevents a grotesque massacre-regardless of the actual percentage of total gun deaths it comprises- I'm all for it.

No need to speculate on what would happen. We already had an assault weapons ban for 10 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...lt_Weapons_Ban

It had zero impact. In fact, gun deaths continued a slow decline after the ban was lifted.

The Task Force on Community Preventive Services, an independent, non-federal task force, examined an assortment of firearms laws, including the AWB, and found "insufficient evidence to determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws reviewed for preventing violence". A 2004 critical review of firearms research by a National Research Council committee said that an academic study of the assault weapon ban "did not reveal any clear impacts on gun violence outcomes". The committee noted that the study's authors said the guns were used criminally with relative rarity before the ban and that its maximum potential effect on gun violence outcomes would be very small.

The only differences between a regular semi-auto rifle and an "assault rifle" are stupid cosmetic things like grips and adjustable stocks.

[SCcoug]

No need to speculate on what would happen. We already had an assault weapons ban for 10 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...lt_Weapons_Ban

It had zero impact. In fact, gun deaths continued a slow decline after the ban was lifted.



The only differences between a regular semi-auto rifle and an "assault rifle" are stupid cosmetic things like grips and adjustable stocks.

No. Assault rife is an actually term. Assault weapon is a made up political term and is what you're describing.

[cowboy]

I agree with JL on all but 2 of those. I think they make some people safer, certainly me, as I carry one every time I'm on a horse, but mostly they protect some people because they are an equalizer. Safer in aggregate is certainly debatable. I also think they protect us from despotism, but that's an opinion I'll have to explain when I'm not riding a horse.

Also, with the standard exceptions, this has been a civil discussion with people who hold different opinions. It's why I appreciate this board: it makes me really think about my opinions.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

[Jeff Lebowski]

I agree with JL on all but 2 of those. I think they make some people safer, certainly me, as I carry one every time I'm on a horse, but mostly they protect some people because they are an equalizer. Safer in aggregate is certainly debatable. I also think they protect us from despotism, but that's an opinion I'll have to explain when I'm not riding a horse.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

Yeah, I am talking in aggregate. There are obviously exceptions. And in many of the cases used to argue this point, people are talking about protecting themselves from other people with guns.

[Uncle Ted]

Here is my take on guns, in bullet points (get it?):

- I own lots of guns and I enjoy hunting. Shot a nice buck last night.
- Guns do not protect us from the government. Don't kid yourself.
- Guns do not make us safer
- Guns do not lower crime
- Guns make it easier to commit suicide
- Mass shootings are a tiny fraction of gun deaths
- The most lethal guns are handguns
- Most gun control measures that people promote would do almost nothing to reduce gun violence.
- The only thing that would measurably impact gun violence would be a repeal of the 2nd amendment and confiscation of guns
- There is no way we have the political will to repeal the 2nd amendment. Too ingrained in American culture.
- Confiscating weapons would take decades and would be a disaster.

Yeah, good luck with that...

[Northwestcoug]

Here is my take on guns, in bullet points (get it?):

- I own lots of guns and I enjoy hunting. Shot a nice buck last night.
- Guns do not protect us from the government. Don't kid yourself.
- Guns do not make us safer
- Guns do not lower crime
- Guns make it easier to commit suicide
- Mass shootings are a tiny fraction of gun deaths
- The most lethal guns are handguns
- Most gun control measures that people promote would do almost nothing to reduce gun violence.
- The only thing that would measurably impact gun violence would be a repeal of the 2nd amendment and confiscation of guns
- There is no way we have the political will to repeal the 2nd amendment. Too ingrained in American culture.
- Confiscating weapons would take decades and would be a disaster.

I agree with most of this. But I would not underestimate political will just yet. If mass shootings continue at the same frequency (even though they make up the small fraction of gun deaths), I suspect the anger will move the political needle. A repeal of the 2nd amendment is impossible for the foreseeable future. But broad gun control reforms are certainly a possibility.

As I've said before, I'm less interested in the (probable) fact that some of the more popular reforms will do little to reduce current gun violence. I'm interested in the long game of curing the sickness of America's gun love affair. It needs to become a taboo. Restricting gun access will hopefully wean a generation off of the cultural obsession with gun freedom.

[Topper]

I agree with most of this. But I would not underestimate political will just yet. If mass shootings continue at the same frequency (even though they make up the small fraction of gun deaths), I suspect the anger will move the political needle. A repeal of the 2nd amendment is impossible for the foreseeable future. But broad gun control reforms are certainly a possibility.

As I've said before, I'm less interested in the (probable) fact that some of the more popular reforms will do little to reduce current gun violence. I'm interested in the long game of curing the sickness of America's gun love affair. It needs to become a taboo. Restricting gun access will hopefully wean a generation off of the cultural obsession with gun freedom.

But broad controls may not pass muster.

[Goatnapper'96]

I agree with most of this. But I would not underestimate political will just yet. If mass shootings continue at the same frequency (even though they make up the small fraction of gun deaths), I suspect the anger will move the political needle. A repeal of the 2nd amendment is impossible for the foreseeable future. But broad gun control reforms are certainly a possibility.

As I've said before, I'm less interested in the (probable) fact that some of the more popular reforms will do little to reduce current gun violence. I'm interested in the long game of curing the sickness of America's gun love affair. It needs to become a taboo. Restricting gun access will hopefully wean a generation off of the cultural obsession with gun freedom.

Remember when you were surprised that Donald Trump was elected President of the US?

The needle isn't changing. Not in this environment and the environment is not going to change/improve or whatever one wants to describe it for a real long time - perhaps ever. With those who term freedom loving rednecks and their passion for guns as a "sickness," my guess is the needle is changing but most of my echo chamber is not of those kinds of folks. The long term urbanization trends could impact that over a very long time, but I am pretty convinced this issue will bend towards freedom. American's don't usually voluntarily forfeit freedoms they have had.

You see Freedom really isn't free.

[CardiacCoug]

Good bullet points JL.

I still think a massive effort at gun buybacks would be good. Nobody’s freedom is encroached upon but the total number of guns lying around waiting there for somebody to get suicidal and make use of would be reduced. But reducing gun deaths is a goal best met by changing policies not related to guns: legalizing marijuana nationwide and improving education and job opportunities in the country would clearly make more difference than trying to confiscate guns. More mental health services and drug rehab services etc. are a good start.

[Commando]

... but that's an opinion I'll have to explain when I'm not riding a horse.

You're telling me you're on the back of a horse bashing out replies on a forum thread?