Las Vegas Strip - Deadliest Mass Shooting in US

[Katy Lied]

If I request, twice, that you send me twenty dollars, even though I don't deserve it, will you send it to me?

As long as it costs me what it cost me to apologize to BM.

[old_gregg]

can someone bump the thread in which ipu passionately defended the second amendment right for citizens to own and use rocket launchers free from government regulation? tia.

[smokymountainrain]

Byron has requested an apology twice. So I'd like to apologize for any insults I've hurled your way. We all should treat each other with respect.

eh, no need to go soft on us, KL. nobody insulted sooner.

[Uncle Ted]

I didn't know what a bump stock was until this incident caused me to look it up. I am not sure how I feel about that, as it seems pretty clearly meant only to circumvent the prohibition on automatic weapons. On balance, however, I am opposed to further restrictions on gun ownership, at least in the shadow of this horrific event.

Gun bans are worthless... folks just will make their own. It doesn't seem to hard to make a bump stock, for example.

They can even just buy robots to make guns for them:

[ByronMarchant]

I keep hearing this argument, and I don't know why you and others who keep hammering it think it is a good one.

Even Antonin Scalia thought it was a good argument, and he was a very smart, very conservative guy.

Right to bear arms:

Which arms?

Nuclear weapon?
Bazooka?
Machine gun?

No

Semi-automatic?

Yes

Says who?

Scalia said it's up to the states and the government to determine which arms are OK to bear. There is no question that the government has every right to ban weapons that are especially big or bad as they see fit. Scalia specifically made the argument about the founding fathers not conceiving of the weapons that we would have today.

[ByronMarchant]

You miss on two points.
A horrible event like this brings out the worst in people with political agendas, while ignoring the root causes and cures.

What other first-world countries have mass shootings like this? Serious question.

Why do some of you people act like taking guns away won't help? Take them the hell away for 25 years and see what happens. Everything will be OK. No one is going to break into your house or mug you.

[beefytee]

Possible solutions to mass killings in the U.S.

1. Increase enforcement measures on illegal automatic weapons.

2. Increase penalties associated with illegal possession of automatic weapons.

3. Make it illegal to modify a semi-automatic weapon to make it the functional equivalent of a fully automatic weapon.

4. Make gun ownership a privilege that may be enjoyed only by those who are certified as mentally competent.

5. Bring back the insane asylum. While it's true that no one likes the though of family and friends who are a danger to society being locked away (even if humanely treated), I'm not sure anyone likes the idea of being shot at in public spaces either.

6. Enact penalties for registered gun owners whose weapons fall into the possession of those who are not permitted to possess or own firearms (felons, mentally incompetent, minors), including vicarious liability for registered gun owners whose weapons are used to commit crimes by persons who are not permitted to possess or own firearms.

In summary, use three guiding principles: 1. Mental competence thresholds are required for gun ownership (makes sense); 2. Deal with psycho and sociopaths in a humane, but socially responsible manner (EMPHASIS ON HUMANE); 3. Incentivize responsible gun ownership/penalize irresponsible gun ownership.

I'm mostly fine with those, but from what I know of the shooting, only number three would have done anything to prevent the carnage that happened Sunday night. And even then, it seems that it would have been pretty easy for the shooter to get or make some kind of contraption on his own.

[creekster]

As long as it costs me what it cost me to apologize to BM.

So it would be worth as much as your apology? Got it.

[beefytee]

What other first-world countries have mass shootings like this? Serious question.

Why do some of you people act like taking guns away won't help? Take them the hell away for 25 years and see what happens. Everything will be OK. No one is going to break into your house or mug you.

Serious question? They do happen other places

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...icle-1.1220608



As for break-ins. That has only happened to me twice and it was in 2 separate areas on my mission in Korea. I'm pretty sure the perpetrators didn't have guns (Korea has strict civilian gun control laws).

[swampfrog]

I'm no lawyer, but this latest led me to at least go read up again on what the SCOTUS has said about the 2nd amendment interpretation. Given the interpretation, it's going to take a SCOTUS reversal or an amendment. Whenever one of these tragedies occurs, I typically go back and watch this video (which I may first have seen here?--maybe in the maps thread) to be reminded of what the data shows. And also to be reminded of what governments can do to it's own population--especially during times of internal or external conflicts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwKPFT-RioU

[falafel]

Serious question? They do happen other places

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...icle-1.1220608

As for break-ins. That has only happened to me twice and it was in 2 separate areas on my mission in Korea. I'm pretty sure the perpetrators didn't have guns (Korea has strict civilian gun control laws).

This is why Byron Marchant character is so dangerous on this board and should be banned. But instead, he'll probably just demand an apology.

[Green Monstah]

I'm mostly fine with those, but from what I know of the shooting, only number three would have done anything to prevent the carnage that happened Sunday night. And even then, it seems that it would have been pretty easy for the shooter to get or make some kind of contraption on his own.

Depending on how #4 is enforced, I think it could make a difference as well.

I could probably add a #7: Repeal the Brady Bill exception for gunshows and private gun sales. If you buy a gun, you've got to be cleared and registered.

[beefytee]

Depending on how #4 is enforced, I think it could make a difference as well.

I could probably add a #7: Repeal the Brady Bill exception for gunshows and private gun sales. If you buy a gun, you've got to be cleared and registered.

I was referring specifically to this shooting. I don't believe #4 would have made a difference because from what I understand there were no known mental health issues beforehand.

I am on board with #7 too. But once again, it would have made no difference on Sunday.

[BigFatMeanie]

Possible solutions to mass killings in the U.S.

1. Increase enforcement measures on illegal automatic weapons.

2. Increase penalties associated with illegal possession of automatic weapons.

3. Make it illegal to modify a semi-automatic weapon to make it the functional equivalent of a fully automatic weapon.

4. Make gun ownership a privilege that may be enjoyed only by those who are certified as mentally competent.

5. Bring back the insane asylum. While it's true that no one likes the though of family and friends who are a danger to society being locked away (even if humanely treated), I'm not sure anyone likes the idea of being shot at in public spaces either.

6. Enact penalties for registered gun owners whose weapons fall into the possession of those who are not permitted to possess or own firearms (felons, mentally incompetent, minors), including vicarious liability for registered gun owners whose weapons are used to commit crimes by persons who are not permitted to possess or own firearms.

In summary, use three guiding principles: 1. Mental competence thresholds are required for gun ownership (makes sense); 2. Deal with psycho and sociopaths in a humane, but socially responsible manner (EMPHASIS ON HUMANE); 3. Incentivize responsible gun ownership/penalize irresponsible gun ownership.

This would also have a significant impact on reducing the homeless population. Just sayin...

[Topper]

Even Antonin Scalia thought it was a good argument, and he was a very smart, very conservative guy.

Right to bear arms:

Which arms?

Nuclear weapon?
Bazooka?
Machine gun?

No

Semi-automatic?

Yes

Says who?

Scalia said it's up to the states and the government to determine which arms are OK to bear. There is no question that the government has every right to ban weapons that are especially big or bad as they see fit. Scalia specifically made the argument about the founding fathers not conceiving of the weapons that we would have today.

You're being intentionally daft. Go read the McDonald and Heller Supreme Court cases, and then you'll see what the Constitutional Right is.