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Las Vegas Strip - Deadliest Mass Shooting in US

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  • Originally posted by Eddie View Post
    Guns are great. I love to go shooting. I'll be headed out to do some more shooting later this week.

    Now - killers are not so great. I don't love them.

    So - how do we balance people like me - who don't shoot people - getting to keep having fun shooting guns with getting guns away from people like the crazy guy in Vegas?
    Maybe develop a different kind of gun culture in the United States... one like they have in Switzerland:

    The Swiss Difference: A Gun Culture That Works


    The country had one mass shooting in 2001, but a resulting anti-gun referendum failed to pass. The Swiss will not give up the gun. Can their system work in the U.S.?

    Even as the gun-control debate rises again in the U.S. in the aftermath of the horrific school shooting in Newtown, Conn., the gun-loving Swiss are not about to lay down their arms. Guns are ubiquitous in this neutral nation, with sharpshooting considered a fun and wholesome recreational activity for people of all ages.


    Even though Switzerland has not been involved in an armed conflict since a standoff between Catholics and Protestants in 1847, the Swiss are very serious not only about their right to own weapons but also to carry them around in public. Because of this general acceptance and even pride in gun ownership, nobody bats an eye at the sight of a civilian riding a bus, bike or motorcycle to the shooting range, with a rifle slung across the shoulder.

    We will never change our attitude about the responsible use of weapons by law-abiding citizens,” says Hermann Suter, vice president of Pro-Tell, the country’s gun lobby, named after legendary apple shooter William Tell, who used a crossbow to target enemies long before firearms were invented.


    Switzerland trails behind only the U.S, Yemen and Serbia in the number of guns per capita; between 2.3 million and 4.5 million military and private firearms are estimated to be in circulation in a country of only 8 million people. Yet, despite the prevalence of guns, the violent-crime rate is low: government figures show about 0.5 gun homicides per 100,000 inhabitants in 2010. By comparison, the U.S rate in the same year was about 5 firearm killings per 100,000 people, according to a 2011 U.N. report.


    Unlike some other heavily armed nations, Switzerland’s gun ownership is deeply rooted in a sense of patriotic duty and national identity. Weapons are kept at home because of the long-held belief that enemies could invade tiny Switzerland quickly, so every soldier had to be able to fight his way to his regiment’s assembly point. (Switzerland was at risk of being invaded by Germany during World War II but was spared, historians say, because every Swiss man was armed and trained to shoot.)
    [...]
    http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the...re-that-works/

    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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    • Originally posted by Topper View Post
      That's going to happen.

      Instead, you authoritarians who want the government to dictate every step of your life, should probably just wait it out. The percentage who enjoy hunting, shooting and responsible activities will probably decline with this do nothing Millennial generation to a point where they may hand them over.
      Wow, you almost sound sad that the future generations may not want to own guns at the same insane current ratio.
      "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
      "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
      - SeattleUte

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      • Originally posted by ByronMarchant View Post
        I was just pointing out that the title of the thread was factually incorrect. MSNBC has it right. They've been reporting this as the largest mass shooting "in modern history."
        The thread title makes no reference to history or even time at all. So you can't with certainty say it's factually incorrect.

        What I can say is that your immediate and obvious troll, attempting to use freshly spilled blood to score political points is repugnant. Up to this point, I've viewed your comments on the board in a charitable light, even holding out hope that you say what you say from a position of honesty. It's obvious to me now that I was wrong, and you're simply the stereotypical ex-mormon who can leave the church but can't leave the church alone. From now on when I see your posts, all I'll hear is this:

        0615-Vuvuzela.jpg

        Comment


        • OK, so I'm being accused of trying to "score political points." Hillary Clinton also is being accused of the same thing since she also is advocating for more gun control today.

          Why is advocating for gun control an attempt to "score political points." Why can't people view it instead as an attempt to stop mass shootings except when in their own self-interest (or political interest) regarding guns?

          Is Gabby Giffords trying to score cheap political points today as well? https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...o-well-n806691

          At what point do people start to believe that maybe limiting access to guns might be a good thing? If ever?

          Finally, if today isn't the right time to advocate for gun control, when is the right time? Tomorrow? In a week? How many more mass shootings before it's OK?
          Last edited by ByronMarchant; 10-02-2017, 06:30 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ByronMarchant View Post
            OK, so I'm being accused of trying to "score political points." Hillary Clinton also is being accused of the same thing since she also is advocating for more gun control today.

            Why is advocating for gun control an attempt to "score political points." Why can't people view it instead as an attempt to stop mass shootings except when in their own self-interest (or political interest) regarding guns?

            Is Gabby Giffords trying to score cheap political points today as well? https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...o-well-n806691

            At what point do people start to believe that maybe limiting access to guns might be a good thing? If ever?

            Finally, if today isn't the right time to advocate for gun control, when is the right time? Tomorrow? In a week? How many more mass shootings before it's OK?
            Just so we're clear, I'm not referring to guns but to this:

            Also, I would dispute whether this is truly the deadliest mass shooting in US History. I can think of at least one that was larger--not too far from Vegas.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Bo Diddley View Post
              Up to this point, I've viewed your comments on the board in a charitable light, even holding out hope that you say what you say from a position of honesty. It's obvious to me now that I was wrong, and you're simply the stereotypical ex-mormon who can leave the church but can't leave the church alone.
              You must be new around here BD. There is a whole thread somewhere dedicated to highlighting BM's posts where he has compared the LDS Church organization to that of the North Korean government. (And when that well ran dry he started comparing the LDS Church to ISIS.)
              You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay
              Almost everything you post is snarky, smug, condescending, or just downright mean-spirited. --Jeffrey Lebowski

              Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump
              You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

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              • I've been swamped all day (WD1 of close) so I'm finally reading up on this. What an awful tragedy. Words can't express the awfulness. This just seems like a tragic last six months of the year for the US so far. From flooding, to fires, to shootings. Hopefully the final three months are better.
                "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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                • Originally posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
                  You must be new around here BD. There is a whole thread somewhere dedicated to highlighting BM's posts where he has compared the LDS Church organization to that of the North Korean government. (And when that well ran dry he started comparing the LDS Church to ISIS.)
                  Hyperbole.

                  Different forms of totalitarianism. We Mormons have the good kind of totalitarianism.

                  In any case, now they say the guy had something like 42 guns. Is that legal?

                  I have never held a gun before so I'm curious. What do people feel when they go out to shoot their guns? Is it fun? How fun is it? Worth making it so easy to buy guns? You'll have to forgive me for not understanding of having sympathy for those who love guns, but I really don't see a point in it. I see only badness from it.

                  I like shooting my basketball at the hoop in my yard but not so much as to be opposed to making it illegal if it facilitated unnecessary deaths (even if the data only supported its association with successful completion of suicides). If guns are just sport, why wouldn't people want it to be illegal? If people like to have them for defense, then where are the data demonstrating that it's really necessary to protect yourself in modern America?
                  Last edited by ByronMarchant; 10-02-2017, 07:54 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ByronMarchant View Post
                    OK, so I'm being accused of trying to "score political points." Hillary Clinton also is being accused of the same thing since she also is advocating for more gun control today.

                    Why is advocating for gun control an attempt to "score political points." Why can't people view it instead as an attempt to stop mass shootings except when in their own self-interest (or political interest) regarding guns?

                    Is Gabby Giffords trying to score cheap political points today as well? https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...o-well-n806691

                    At what point do people start to believe that maybe limiting access to guns might be a good thing? If ever?

                    Finally, if today isn't the right time to advocate for gun control, when is the right time? Tomorrow? In a week? How many more mass shootings before it's OK?
                    We should discuss better truck control or banning them all together...





                    When is the right time to talk about limiting trucks? It has been over an year!
                    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ByronMarchant View Post
                      Hyperbole.

                      Different forms of totalitarianism. We Mormons have the good kind of totalitarianism.

                      In any case, now they say the guy had something like 42 guns. Is that legal?

                      I have never held a gun before so I'm curious. What do people feel when they go out to shoot their guns? Is it fun? How fun is it? Worth making it so easy to buy guns? You'll have to forgive me for not understanding of having sympathy for those who love guns, but I really don't see a point in it. I see only badness from it.

                      I like shooting my basketball at the hoop in my yard but not so much as to be opposed to making it illegal if it facilitated unnecessary deaths (even if the data only supported its association with successful completion of suicides). If guns are just sport, why wouldn't people want it to be illegal? If people like to have them for defense, then where are the data demonstrating that it's really necessary to protect yourself in modern America?
                      It can be legal to own that many guns. But I seriously doubt his Kalishnikovs were legal. And if they were I agree that is a problem.

                      I'm expecting to find out a large portion of his arsenal was illegal. In which case a discussion about additional gun bans seems wrongheaded. Maybe it needs to be had, but I doubt it would have stopped this guy and seems like a weird, counterrpoductive place to go today. I could of course be completely wrong.

                      Comment


                      • I just can't wrap my brain around wanting to murder complete strangers. Doesn't compute.
                        "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                        "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                        "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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                        • Originally posted by Omaha 680 View Post
                          It can be legal to own that many guns. But I seriously doubt his Kalishnikovs were legal. And if they were I agree that is a problem.

                          I'm expecting to find out a large portion of his arsenal was illegal. In which case a discussion about additional gun bans seems wrongheaded. Maybe it needs to be had, but I doubt it would have stopped this guy and seems like a weird, counterrpoductive place to go today. I could of course be completely wrong.
                          An AK in legal form is simply a rifle, semi-automatic, which is the form of loading for most weapons. Why does it sound illegal simply because it has a Russian name? It is a rifle designed to endure the harsh elements of Eastern conditions.

                          42 weapons is a form of collectorism. Gun enthusiasts often start collecting from a particular manufacturer and for particular purposes.

                          The are guns for target shooting, guns for sporting clays, skeet, and trap. Guns for duck, dove, geese, chuckar, pheasant, turkey and the like. There are concealed carry, open carry, back up and third weapon. Each of those is of a different variety. Then you have rifles for different sort of game, antelope, deer, elk, and beer. I suppose there are also calibers for bigger African game.

                          In many instances, many of those guns will never have been fired or fired only once. The vast majority of gun owners, more than 99.999% own and use their guns without incident and legally. The vast majority of car owners do so as well.
                          "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

                          Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

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                          • The name doesnt sound illegal but the firing mode did. Either he purchased them illegally or had someone illegally modify them (which I understand isn't easy to do).

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ByronMarchant View Post
                              I was just pointing out that the title of the thread was factually incorrect. MSNBC has it right. They've been reporting this as the largest mass shooting "in modern history."

                              I'd also like to say that I am offended by the personal insults hurled in my direction (e.g., with regard to my degrees or how "smart" I think I am) or being compared with a mass shooter. This stuff should be totally out of bounds.

                              I show restraint with regard to personal insults.

                              I do my job. I work hard and I'm successful. But I do say what I genuinely think about the world and do not deserve personal insults. Some of you are incredibly rude people and I expect an apology.
                              personal insults? link?
                              I'm like LeBron James.
                              -mpfunk

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                              • Consider the following:

                                At one point, Americans were dropping like flies from infectious diseases. Small pox. Tuberculosis. You name it. Now these are a thing of the past--simply because we decided to do something about it instead of throwing up our hands and saying it was futile.

                                Saying that the existence of 357 million guns in America is a reason not to do anything about it is just plain irresponsible (not to mention absurd).

                                99.99999% of people are responsible with their tuberculosis, by the way. They will cover their mouth when they cough. Still doesn't mean it isn't dangerous and shouldn't be eradicated.

                                Aside from the absurdity of the implication that gun control is futile, there is objective public health evidence that gun access causes more Americans to die--usually due to more effective suicide attempts.
                                Last edited by ByronMarchant; 10-03-2017, 07:09 AM.

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