President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[Northwestcoug]

I wonder how many voters form opinions from Fox news anymore? I am saying that Bernie was right when he said that the Dems had abandoned the working class and that Trump has picked up what he could from those Bernie-bros left bereft. If you are a younger Millenia/ Zoomer male right now just having entered the job market in the past decade and you are not a "super performer", and you see all these identity politics played at your company and you get paid peanuts with little hope for advancement or increase and home prices soaring into the $millions for "average" homes and all the talking points that Dems care about basically involve invoking "nazi" and "fascist" or "racist" jargon at every pass, in hyperbolic fashion, but then you have at least some discussion on the Repub side talking about supporting the unions and the working class that can't afford anything, how do you think that resonates?

I wish I had a 20 year younger Bernie to vote for. I wish I had a Democrat party that cared about the working class, but that seems to be the Republicans now. For many Trump voters (not just the MAGA sheep) the choice is crap sandwich or a turd burger, so might as well go with the one that is at least speaking to your immediate issues and is threatening the status quo of the wealthy elites that you feel are oppressing you both financially and socially. I don't necessarily agree with this, but it is the perception among non-MAGA Trump voters I know.

I guarantee you that senior citizens are listening and forming their opinions via Fox News. What was anathema a generation ago (e.g. anything less than free trade, the unimportance of sexual morality in leaders, etc.) has been rationalized and neatly packaged into tolerable morsels for my mom's generation.

With regards to the younger generation, preach. If my kids are representative of their generation, they are solidly left but are wholly disillusioned with political parties. There is no fealty to a political party, though they (at least the two eldest who are staring at the realities of job and housing outlooks) sympathize with the AOC/Bernie faction.

But as to your assertion that the Republicans are for the working class, that opinion is not at all shared with their generation. What is important to them (health care affordability, social justice, housing availability) is not even being broadcast by GOP channels. And I'd argue that what the republicans are spending political capital on right now is not focused on the working class, with the possible exception of the possibility of a return of a healthy manufacturing base in a generation or two.

[Jeff Lebowski]

There will be irreparable harm by then, but I expect the 2026 midterms to be a bloodbath for republicans. But then I remember the pathetic state of the democratic party and I get depressed.

[frank ryan]

LOL! Keep calling the "other 50%" a cult and we might as well just start the civil war already. They are people with (vastly) different perspective than you. But still people. The more that they upper class and upper middle class continue to write-off the "unwashed imbecilic masses of MAGA cultists" the more i think that we are headed toward lop-sided republican victories. The narratives, and more importantly the wealth-disparity conditions need to change.

You must be blind to all the civil war talk that has been coming from MAGA for sometime (Mike Lee and MTG). There is this gatekeepyish double standard about criticizing MAGA and Trump.

Wealth disparities are going to get intentionally worse with Musk and Trump. You have the richest man in the world actively harming anything that resembles support for the power and economically depressed.

Trump is a cult of personality. I'm not sure of a more appropriate term at this point, because he is breaking the economy and people seem unable to enter cognitive dissonance to change their mind on supporting him.

Liberals saying mean things about Trump isn't the problem because they don't read the unfairly maligned mainstream media. They react to what they have been told liberals say about them.

Trump doesn't get to be increasingly shitty and not have the political opposition use appropriate terms to describe himself.

A bigger telling defect of the state of American politics is that beyond Romney and Cheney, the GOP is incapable of independent action from MAGA. Shame on previously genuine conservatives like Ben Shapiro (who now criticizes the tariffs) for muting their criticism of Trump when it was most needed.

How many much more fuckery does he get to burden us and the world with before he gets any pushback from the right?

[frank ryan]

There will be irreparable harm by then, but I expect the 2026 midterms to be a bloodbath for republicans. But then I remember the pathetic state of the democratic party and I get depressed.

I have a genuine worry that MAGA/Trump/Musk are going to get shady with elections in red states and they will politicize or restrain any federal body that would regulate them.

He tried to do that stuff when he lost, so it would be unlikely that he wouldn't attempt that this time around with less restraint and more power.

The Democratic Party has been uninspired and pitiful at times. I don't think they've changed their game plan to countenance to the dirty pool MAGA is playing.

They need both show more bite and life and someone who will speak to mainstream white America.

I don't think a Republican Party separate MAGA functionally exists anymore.

[wally]

It's not 50%. Somewhere around 35%.

Calling a spade a spade. Show me how they are gettable by a progressive free-trade believing movement while Trump is yelling in their ear that they have somehow been cheated. I meet and talk to these people each time I visit relatives in Tennessee. It's a cult, plain and simple.

Well 35% is better than 50% of the US being cultists, but I think that maybe calling them "die-hard" right-wing is better, because invoking 'cultism' is a little bit close to "reducto-ad-Hitlerism" I don't think it adds value to the dialog, and then you get weitten-off as having the dreaded "Trump derangement syndrome " and if nobody on the opposite side is listening, then you are just virtue-signaling.

Also, I think that those 35% will be voting red regardless.

[Northwestcoug]

We are in serious danger of America-passing. The rest of the world which still believes in the benefit of international trade will move on. American internationals will keep a hold here, but will move outside to survive and compete. American influence will wane and Chinese influence will expand, especially in the developing world.

I don't think we'll get there. Events will lead to Trump backing down from most of his rhetoric (reparations? really? Japan importing lots of U.S. cars? really?). Best case scenario is be go to zero tariffs with our major trading partners. That would actually be a big win and a new era of economic growth would emerge. Okay, wishful thinking. But America-passing is a serious negative possibility.

Mark Carney, the Canadian Prime Minister of the political party that was all but dead until Trump single-handedly revived it with his Canada annexation craziness, has had a couple of high-profile press conferences where he soberly states the new reality. He said, "Canada's old relationship with the United States, based on deepening integration of our economies and tight security and military cooperation, is over." The overall vibe is forging stronger relationships with Europe. Cross-border traffic is cratering, both auto and flights. Even the Trump curious Albertans are now looking at falling oil prices and doing the unthinkable, considering a vote for the Liberals.

Whatever happens with America concerning it's own citizens, more countries are seeing a diminished future for us and looking elsewhere for relationships.

[wally]

You must be blind to all the civil war talk that has been coming from MAGA for sometime (Mike Lee and MTG). There is this gatekeepyish double standard about criticizing MAGA and Trump.

Wealth disparities are going to get intentionally worse with Musk and Trump. You have the richest man in the world actively harming anything that resembles support for the power and economically depressed.

Trump is a cult of personality. I'm not sure of a more appropriate term at this point, because he is breaking the economy and people seem unable to enter cognitive dissonance to change their mind on supporting him.

Liberals saying mean things about Trump isn't the problem because they don't read the unfairly maligned mainstream media. They react to what they have been told liberals say about them.

Trump doesn't get to be increasingly shitty and not have the political opposition use appropriate terms to describe himself.

A bigger telling defect of the state of American politics is that beyond Romney and Cheney, the GOP is incapable of independent action from MAGA. Shame on previously genuine conservatives like Ben Shapiro (who now criticizes the tariffs) for muting their criticism of Trump when it was most needed.

How many much more fuckery does he get to burden us and the world with before he gets any pushback from the right?

I get everything you are saying, I just don't think you are living in reality. There are reasonable counterpoints to all your arguments, and when the score is tied, and the person voting has to make their decision, that is the decision I am interested in understanding. Look, I am a Ute fan on a Cougar website. I like seeing into the mindset I don't understand. Sometimes it informs me and I change my mind, sometimes not. If the left willfully refusing to understand what is influencing swing-Trump supporters, I am not liking the Lefts chances next Presidential election.

perhaps, the Tariffs will destroy the economy, and hand the Left control of the white house next cycle, but I have a hard time seeing translate to continued success if they don't also change focus. If Newsom is defeated in the gubernatorial race in a couple years after breaking with the party extremes on some fringe issues, that will be telling, IMO.

I really like political compromise. I don't see any of that from either side, but yes if you force me to pick which side has stinkier shit on compromise, I'll concede that it is the Right, presently.

[beefytee]

You would think, but didn't they just stress-test this with voluntary COVID closures/restrictions? Will it be worse than that? If wealth disparity is exacerbated in a hypothetical (for now) future recession like it did during Covid, I think that the right gains steam with anti-wealthy/pro-working class rhetoric, unless the Dems reinvent themselves quickly.

This is a freaking petri dish experiment with tariffs. It's turned global trade on its head, and i don't think anyone really knows what will happen. Unchartered waters.

You need to go back to school. It's been done before.

[wally]

I guarantee you that senior citizens are listening and forming their opinions via Fox News. What was anathema a generation ago (e.g. anything less than free trade, the unimportance of sexual morality in leaders, etc.) has been rationalized and neatly packaged into tolerable morsels for my mom's generation.

With regards to the younger generation, preach. If my kids are representative of their generation, they are solidly left but are wholly disillusioned with political parties. There is no fealty to a political party, though they (at least the two eldest who are staring at the realities of job and housing outlooks) sympathize with the AOC/Bernie faction.

But as to your assertion that the Republicans are for the working class, that opinion is not at all shared with their generation. What is important to them (health care affordability, social justice, housing availability) is not even being broadcast by GOP channels. And I'd argue that what the republicans are spending political capital on right now is not focused on the working class, with the possible exception of the possibility of a return of a healthy manufacturing base in a generation or two.

It's funny, but my anecdotal cross-section of my kids and their friends have similar concerns as yours, but fall on the conservative side of the aisle. This is especially ironic as a few of them up until recently would have fallen much more firmly on the liberal side, so my sample set has some who have swung way past me in the middle to the right.

[myboynoah]

Well 35% is better than 50% of the US being cultists, but I think that maybe calling them "die-hard" right-wing is better, because invoking 'cultism' is a little bit close to "reducto-ad-Hitlerism" I don't think it adds value to the dialog, and then you get weitten-off as having the dreaded "Trump derangement syndrome " and if nobody on the opposite side is listening, then you are just virtue-signaling.

Also, I think that those 35% will be voting red regardless.

I just disagree. For all my disdain for Trump, he has an allure that draws people in. Add the born-again religious nature of the right, particularly in the South, and we have a great stew for cultic behavior. I know a woman in Tennessee on a fixed income who sends monthly payments to Trump. To Trump! Watches Fox News all the time. And other relatives, people I like, but cannot be dissuaded from believing that Hillary Clinton was running a child trafficking operations out of that Pizza joint in DC. They also firmly believe that Paul Pelosi was doing some weird sex stuff when he got attacked. Cannot be driven off that belief. Another woman who was anitvaxx during Covid, but then got Covid. Recanted after recovery, but at Thanksgiving was going on and on about how the "jab" was some kind of "liberal" plot to take away our rights. This is an awesome soup where Trump can find true believers who will not be moved off their commitment to him. Notice he never talks about Operation Light Speed. This is the real TDS, and I'm happy to say so.

Those people are lost, Trump will die and it will dissolve for the most part because he will be gone along with the fire that makes them burn.

[wally]

I just disagree. For all my disdain for Trump, he has an allure that draws people in. Add the born-again religious nature of the right, particularly in the South, and we have a great stew for cultic behavior. I know a woman in Tennessee on a fixed income who sends monthly payments to Trump. To Trump! Watches Fox News all the time. And other relatives, people I like, but cannot be dissuaded from believing that Hillary Clinton was running a child trafficking operations out of that Pizza joint in DC. They also firmly believe that Paul Pelosi was doing some weird sex stuff when he got attacked. Cannot be driven off that belief. Another woman who was anitvaxx during Covid, but then got Covid. Recanted after recovery, but at Thanksgiving was going on and on about how the "jab" was some kind of "liberal" plot to take away our rights. This is an awesome soup where Trump can find true believers who will not be moved off their commitment to him. Notice he never talks about Operation Light Speed. This is the real TDS, and I'm happy to say so.

Those people are lost, Trump will die and it will dissolve for the most part because he will be gone along with the fire that makes them burn.

Fair enough. This is all pretty fascinating to me. Trump won in a landslide, against all the legacy media predictions, so I am open to many different opinions and perspectives that I wouldn't have been previously to explain. Part of me is excited to see real change, even if it is extremely risky, part of me is terrified, but at least the status quo is broken and there is opportunity for real change on the Left and the Right. I have been voting for various 3rd parties hoping for a "Ross Perot" moment that forces party platforms to shift. Trump preempted that with stealing some traditional democratic voters and now the world is on its head.

[Maximus]

When he got the delivery, he stared at the tariff for a while. Shouldn’t his Canadian supplier have been responsible for paying it?

ast month, Nicholas Gilbert received a delivery of grain for the 1,400 cows he tends at his dairy farm in Potsdam, New York, 20 miles from the Ontario border. The feed came with a surprise tariff of $2,200 tacked on. “We have small margins,” he told me. “I had a contracted price on that grain delivered to my barn. It was supposed to be so much per ton. And they added that tariff right on top because it comes from a Canadian feed mill.”

Gilbert cannot increase the price of the milk he sells, which is set by the local co-op. He cannot feed his cows less food. He cannot buy feed from another supplier; there aren’t any nearby, and getting it from farther away would be more expensive. When he got the delivery, he stared at the tariff for a while. Shouldn’t his Canadian supplier have been responsible for paying it? “I’m not even sure it’s legal! We contracted for the price on delivery! If your price of fuel goes up or your truck breaks down, that’s not my problem! That’s what the contract’s for.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-trump/682297/

[myboynoah]

Sad, but was he not paying attention? This has been discussed and explained publicly for months, especially during the campaign. He should just send the bill to the White House.

[chrisrenrut]

Fair enough. This is all pretty fascinating to me. Trump won in a landslide. . .

I enjoy listening to opposing views, and try to keep an open mind. I can’t say I agree with everything Wally has said, but I was coming around to the honesty of his opinion. Until you said this. Landslide can be a relative term, but I don’t think it should describe Trumps 2024 victory in any way. Makes me question your objectivity a bit. What voices or sources are you listening to that have convinced you of this?

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign...4-victory/amp/

[BlueK]

Sad, but was he not paying attention? This has been discussed and explained publicly for months, especially during the campaign. He should just send the bill to the White House.

Maybe he's not very political and really wasn't paying attention. Or maybe he actually believed Trump that it was a tax on other countries and found out the hard way that it isn't true.