President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[myboynoah]

He is so insanely stupid.

No he isn't. They are all capitulating!

[PaloAltoCougar]

The idea that Europe owes us reparations is absurd and so very un-American. Sure, over the years we (especially the Greatest Generation) have sacrified a great deal to preserve democracy and free markets, but in many ways we've benefited from that as much or more than any of our European allies and friends. I'm absolutely certain that my parents and others of that generation would be repulsed by the idea that Trump (btw, a draft and tax dodger) thinks we should demand reparations for the help we freely gave. Trump demonstrates daily that he has zero historical sense, integrity, or goodwill toward others. I can't think of any politician I've ever disliked more.

[wally]

My ai says that the top 1% of wealthy Americans own 50% of the stock market and the top 10% of wealth Americans own up to 93% of the stock market. My ai also tells me that home ownership is about 63% of Americans, so I suppose that if people start falling behind on their mortgages that would be cause for concern, but my gut tells me that folks in that position were already on their way there with the Biden-era inflation, so whether they blame Trump or just blame Biden again is a matter of preference... also just blame the wealthy too, that works.

EDIT: ai also tells me that the adjusted gross income for the top 10% of U.S. population is at least 6-figures and averages show just about ~$170,000.

So below $170k, most folks just don't own very many stocks, I guess? Average household income is $114k, Median is $80k? This just reinforces the notion that the Stock Market is a tool for the rich to get richer, not intended for Average Americans, who should just go eat cake?

Tariffs are gonna have to cost jobs, I think, before there is a significant shift.

[PaloAltoCougar]

My ai says that the top 1% of wealthy Americans own 50% of the stock market and the top 10% of wealth Americans own up to 93% of the stock market. My ai also tells me that home ownership is about 63% of Americans, so I suppose that if people start falling behind on their mortgages that would be cause for concern, but my gut tells me that folks in that position were already on their way there with the Biden-era inflation, so whether they blame Trump or just blame Biden again is a matter of preference... also just blame the wealthy too, that works.

I know this wasn't your point, but I wish we could get away from references to Bidenflation or Biden-era inflation. One can point to things that Biden did that added to inflation, but overall, the inflationary spiral was due to COVID and supply chain issues. Despite Biden's fedklessness, the U.S. did better navigating through the inflation mess than any other industrialized nation. But sure, Trumpists will continue to blame Biden.

[myboynoah]

This will be interesting to see play out. Let me again stress that I am not a Trump fan, and never once voted for him, but I do fancy myself a realist.

my present opinion is that I do not think that this affects the average Trump voter as much as the media thinks it does...yet. What percentage of Trump voters do you think have sizeable 401k's and see a material loss over the past week in their savings? I honestly don't know, but my guess is that this disproportionately affects the white upper-middle class that did not vote for him anyways. Seems like there are vast swathes of people in the U.S. that don't give a shit about the stock market and view it as the money of the rich. The only way I see these tariffs changing opinions among Trump voters is if this triggers a recession and they lose their jobs or it starts a war (the former more likely than the latter, hopefully). Most folks are living paycheck to paycheck without much thought on retirement. Sorry just being honest.

Aside from the instability created (big aside) this is all very fascinating to watch play out. I saw over the weekend resurrected footage of Nancy Pelosi from 1996 calling for reciprocal tariffs on China, in particular. Same with Bernie and even a remark by Obama about the trade deficits and issues with China. I am happy to see that issue addressed, but do roll out tariffs across a bunch of nations more closely aligned with the U.S. is pretty crazy. to see, the SIGNIFICANT shift in party politics that has occurred in just the past decade or so where the Right is now the party for the common working person. Dogs and cats sleeping together - mass hysteria.

Trump voter = MAGA? Yeah, those folks are lost. They will never abandon Trump because it's a cult. He will say whatever about this situation and they will believe it. Even when they lose their jobs or prices go up for all that cheap plastic crap they buy at Walmart which comes from China. It will somehow be someone else's fault. They are lost.

But not the people who said, "I remember things being good under Trump and Biden is a hollowed out husk, so let's go back to that. We survived it okay last time, right?" I heard this from a family member who is now regretting his vote. Those folks are now seeing the real Trump without guardrails. They are invested. They are losing clients. They might lose their jobs and the safety of the 401K is looking iffy right now. It won't be difficult for those folks to vote against this insanity.

[myboynoah]

My ai says that the top 1% of wealthy Americans own 50% of the stock market and the top 10% of wealth Americans own up to 93% of the stock market. My ai also tells me that home ownership is about 63% of Americans, so I suppose that if people start falling behind on their mortgages that would be cause for concern, but my gut tells me that folks in that position were already on their way there with the Biden-era inflation, so whether they blame Trump or just blame Biden again is a matter of preference... also just blame the wealthy too, that works.

Hard to believe, with all the institutional investors out there. But even if true, that 90% that own the remaining 7% (me I guess) are still getting hit hard. Might not seem like a lot to the 1% or 10% that live in the stratosphere, but it's a lot to me.

[wally]

You're right. Right now the dyed in the wool foxnews GOP voter believes this, since he can't stop talking about it and foxnews keeps playing it:

I wonder how many voters form opinions from Fox news anymore? I am saying that Bernie was right when he said that the Dems had abandoned the working class and that Trump has picked up what he could from those Bernie-bros left bereft. If you are a younger Millenia/ Zoomer male right now just having entered the job market in the past decade and you are not a "super performer", and you see all these identity politics played at your company and you get paid peanuts with little hope for advancement or increase and home prices soaring into the $millions for "average" homes and all the talking points that Dems care about basically involve invoking "nazi" and "fascist" or "racist" jargon at every pass, in hyperbolic fashion, but then you have at least some discussion on the Repub side talking about supporting the unions and the working class that can't afford anything, how do you think that resonates?

I wish I had a 20 year younger Bernie to vote for. I wish I had a Democrat party that cared about the working class, but that seems to be the Republicans now. For many Trump voters (not just the MAGA sheep) the choice is crap sandwich or a turd burger, so might as well go with the one that is at least speaking to your immediate issues and is threatening the status quo of the wealthy elites that you feel are oppressing you both financially and socially. I don't necessarily agree with this, but it is the perception among non-MAGA Trump voters I know.

[Jeff Lebowski]

It kills me to see these MAGA idiots on social media say that they couldn't care less about the 401k accounts because what Trump is doing will make it easier for the bottom 42% (that don't own stocks) to have a good job, buy a house, etc. What a bunch of naive fools. When the economy tanks, those at the bottom will be hit the hardest with inflation, job loss, etc.

[Shaka]

The reparations thing is dumb. Bad Trump!

[myboynoah]

It kills me to see these MAGA idiots on social media say that they couldn't care less about the 401k accounts because what Trump is doing will make it easier for the bottom 42% (that don't own stocks) to have a good job, buy a house, etc. What a bunch of naive fools. When the economy tanks, those at the bottom will be hit the hardest with inflation, job loss, etc.

Those folks are lost. That's the cult speaking.

[wally]

It kills me to see these MAGA idiots on social media say that they couldn't care less about the 401k accounts because what Trump is doing will make it easier for the bottom 42% (that don't own stocks) to have a good job, buy a house, etc. What a bunch of naive fools. When the economy tanks, those at the bottom will be hit the hardest with inflation, job loss, etc.

You would think, but didn't they just stress-test this with voluntary COVID closures/restrictions? Will it be worse than that? If wealth disparity is exacerbated in a hypothetical (for now) future recession like it did during Covid, I think that the right gains steam with anti-wealthy/pro-working class rhetoric, unless the Dems reinvent themselves quickly.

This is a freaking petri dish experiment with tariffs. It's turned global trade on its head, and i don't think anyone really knows what will happen. Unchartered waters.

[Donuthole]

It kills me to see these MAGA idiots on social media say that they couldn't care less about the 401k accounts because what Trump is doing will make it easier for the bottom 42% (that don't own stocks) to have a good job, buy a house, etc. What a bunch of naive fools. When the economy tanks, those at the bottom will be hit the hardest with inflation, job loss, etc.

Also, even if it were the case that this will eventually benefit the lower and lower middle classes (it is not the case, but let's assume it is), I love the cognitive dissonance on display. A bunch of people who believe that anyone who benefits from govt welfare programs is a freeloader, and any low-wage earner who pays little to no taxes is a worthless bottom feeder who contributes little to nothing to the economy. These MAGAts would jump at the chance to get rid of all welfare. But they simultaneously justify Trump's tarriffic disruption of the market and the erasure of billions of dollars from the portfolios of the "wealthy" under the auspices that the disruption is worthwhile because it might somehow eventually benefit those same lower-middle class folks with some lower prices.

IOW, we don't like government handouts to the poor unless they are handed out by Trump.

[myboynoah]

You would think, but didn't they just stress-test this with voluntary COVID closures/restrictions? Will it be worse than that? If wealth disparity is exacerbated in a hypothetical (for now) future recession like it did during Covid, I think that the right gains steam with anti-wealthy/pro-working class rhetoric, unless the Dems reinvent themselves quickly.

This is a freaking petri dish experiment with tariffs. It's turned global trade on its head, and i don't think anyone really knows what will happen. Unchartered waters.

Well, we've done this twice in our history and the result is known. Sadly, the last time was 100 years ago and those folks are all dead.

We are in serious danger of America-passing. The rest of the world which still believes in the benefit of international trade will move on. American internationals will keep a hold here, but will move outside to survive and compete. American influence will wane and Chinese influence will expand, especially in the developing world.

I don't think we'll get there. Events will lead to Trump backing down from most of his rhetoric (reparations? really? Japan importing lots of U.S. cars? really?). Best case scenario is be go to zero tariffs with our major trading partners. That would actually be a big win and a new era of economic growth would emerge. Okay, wishful thinking. But America-passing is a serious negative possibility.

[wally]

Those folks are lost. That's the cult speaking.

LOL! Keep calling the "other 50%" a cult and we might as well just start the civil war already. They are people with (vastly) different perspective than you. But still people. The more that they upper class and upper middle class continue to write-off the "unwashed imbecilic masses of MAGA cultists" the more i think that we are headed toward lop-sided republican victories. The narratives, and more importantly the wealth-disparity conditions need to change.

[myboynoah]

LOL! Keep calling the "other 50%" a cult and we might as well just start the civil war already. They are people with (vastly) different perspective than you. But still people. The more that they upper class and upper middle class continue to write-off the "unwashed imbecilic masses of MAGA cultists" the more i think that we are headed toward lop-sided republican victories. The narratives, and more importantly the wealth-disparity conditions need to change.

It's not 50%. Somewhere around 35%.

Calling a spade a spade. Show me how they are gettable by a progressive free-trade believing movement while Trump is yelling in their ear that they have somehow been cheated. I meet and talk to these people each time I visit relatives in Tennessee. It's a cult, plain and simple.