President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[Donuthole]

Wow. Yet another person unable to parse very simple nuance.

Trump is bad therefore we can’t honestly and rationally assess what happened. Gotcha.

if democrats are this obtuse, we are doomed.

You’re apparently being the most obtuse of anyone. I straight up acknowledge that they played a role. What percentage are you suggesting that role is? You seem to be accepting nothing less than an admission that they played a 51% or more role in his being elected. That’s not true. They played a role. But it’s a small role.

again all of the talking points about concern for the work agenda are valid. It is a stupid agenda. But people have to be smart enough to realize that that is a much smaller factor in anyone’s daily life than the big stuff. The people who failed to consider the weight of those issues are the ones who need to be blamed for Trump being elected (along with the millions who actually champion him, of course)

we can certainly hope the democratic party changes its focus and abandons to a great extent the nonsense of work left. But that doesn’t mean we should stop pointing out that millions of middle voters fell for the garbage scare tactics by Trump‘s campaign. The vast majority of the blame falls on them.

I think the succinct way of saying it is that you can blame the Dems for not doing enough reasonable stuff to lure middle voters to their side. But you cannot blame the woke left for millions of people being stupid enough to believe that Trump was a better option.

[Jeff Lebowski]

You’re apparently being the most obtuse of anyone. I straight up acknowledge that they played a role. What percentage are you suggesting that role is? You seem to be accepting nothing less than an admission that they played a 51% or more role in his being elected. That’s not true. They played a role. But it’s a small role.

You are making that up. Nowhere have I ever argued that it was 51% or more.

again all of the talking points about concern for the work agenda are valid. It is a stupid agenda. But people have to be smart enough to realize that that is a much smaller factor in anyone’s daily life than the big stuff. The people who failed to consider the weight of those issues are the ones who need to be blamed for Trump being elected (along with the millions who actually champion him, of course)

we can certainly hope the democratic party changes its focus and abandons to a great extent the nonsense of work left. But that doesn’t mean we should stop pointing out that millions of middle voters fell for the garbage scare tactics by Trump‘s campaign. The vast majority of the blame falls on them.

I think the succinct way of saying it is that you can blame the Dems for not doing enough reasonable stuff to lure middle voters to their side. But you cannot blame the woke left for millions of people being stupid enough to believe that Trump was a better option.

"It only impacts a tiny number of people."
"fell for garbage scare tactics"
"millions of people being stupid enough"

I see this kind of response a lot. It is precisely this kind of condescension and stubbornness that will ensure more losses at the ballot box.

[Donuthole]

You are making that up. Nowhere have I ever argued that it was 51% or more.



"It only impacts a tiny number of people."
"fell for garbage scare tactics"
"millions of people being stupid enough"

I see this kind of response a lot. It is precisely this kind of condescension and stubbornness that will ensure more losses at the ballot box.

I’m not arguing that it’s not condescending. It is. I admit it. I think most people who voted for Trump are either partisan hacks who care more about party than country or people who failed to adequately assess the scope/breadth/weight of key issues and the practical impact of those issues on our country, failed to accurately assess the ability of Trump to govern, and failed to accurately assess the amount of damage he might do in a second term. I think many already regret their votes for Trump and I think many more will follow. It will be incumbent upon us to refrain from the “I told you so” attitude, even though it will be ever so tempting to fall into. But I fully acknowledge that believing people voted for Trump because they got duped is condescending. Sadly, many people are susceptible to being duped.

Nice change of direction though Re the amount of fault the woke left bears for Trump, you initially started by saying that we refused to acknowledge that it was a factor. I acknowledged that it was a factor and then you called me obtuse for not acknowledging that it was a factor. So tell us, how much of a factor must we be willing to admit the woke left was to not be considered obtuse? Enlighten us.

I mentioned it above briefly, but the principle of joint and several liability in civil law dictates that in certain instances, anyone who is even one percent at fault can be held responsible for all of the damages resulting from the negligence. Which is why I say, this isn’t joint and several liability. So the fact that the woke dems bear a small portion of the responsibility does not merit continuing to blame them for Trump‘s reelection. Let’s acknowledge that played a very small role and then focus on the biggest factors first.

[Maximus]

You are making that up. Nowhere have I ever argued that it was 51% or more.



"It only impacts a tiny number of people."
"fell for garbage scare tactics"
"millions of people being stupid enough"

I see this kind of response a lot. It is precisely this kind of condescension and stubbornness that will ensure more losses at the ballot box.

You can't call something condescending when your only response if you guys are too obtuse to agree with me

[USUC]

Republicans need to realize the maga bs on woke and dei is nonsense.

No one here has been negatively affected by diversity programs. It's all nonsense and a thinly viewed attempt at limiting education or books.

Just look at how Elon is implementing anti dei and you can see its all nonsense . Democrats aren't responsible for foxnews inventing a fake culture war and republicans buying it

This is an olympic gold medal level of copium.

[dabrockster]

Russia did help him dude and he is paying them back

OK. I’ll bite (Bur feel like I will regret this rabbit-hole you may take me down) but will give you some leeway. How? Give me concrete evidence and not just conspiracy threads that have no solid facts.

Hell. Every chance to find this, it came back empty and the whole dossier from Hilary has tainted any mud flung this way.

As for Ukraine. I think there is so much more than he being a meanie to them. This is alway in the eye of the beholder and their own slanted opinion.

[frank ryan]

OK. I’ll bite (Bur feel like I will regret this rabbit-hole you may take me down) but will give you some leeway. How? Give me concrete evidence and not just conspiracy threads that have no solid facts.

Hell. Every chance to find this, it came back empty and the whole dossier from Hilary has tainted any mud flung this way.

As for Ukraine. I think there is so much more than he being a meanie to them. This is alway in the eye of the beholder and their own slanted opinion.

This is not how you start a good faith discussion.
I'm happy to chat about these things, and have before but it feels like a fool's errand when you come at me so snarky and condescending out of the gate. I don't post wild conspiracies, and I don't appreciate that assertion.

[frank ryan]

This is an olympic gold medal level of copium.

You don't agree but you don't need to be so wildly dismissive. I think your skepticism of criticisms of MAGA continue to lack merit.

[Maximus]

This is an olympic gold medal level of copium.

Please show real world examples of dei or woke being a real thing

Elons woke purge has been fire the two non white joint chiefs , firing air traffic controllers based on race , and taking down a picture because the plane had the word gay in it

[Northwestcoug]

As for Ukraine. I think there is so much more than he being a meanie to them. This is alway in the eye of the beholder and their own slanted opinion.

We can actually rely on more than just vibes in making an overall judgment on Ukraine. It doesn't take sainting Zelensky or glorifying Ukraine. We just have to remember this one simple fact; Russia invaded Ukraine. In the world we used to live in that used to mean universal condemnation amongst democratic countries. And we certainly didn't have US presidents who gave the thumbs up to Russia to increase their attacks, while saying with a straight face that he wasn't sure Ukraine wanted to end the war.

Unless you believe Russia's line that they invaded Ukraine to attack Nazism?

[The_Tick]

Please show real world examples of dei or woke being a real thing

Elons woke purge has been fire the two non white joint chiefs , firing air traffic controllers based on race , and taking down a picture because the plane had the word gay in it

https://edsource.org/2024/professor-...ch-case/720358

This is a friend of mine. This is one example that took me about half a second to pull up.

[frank ryan]

https://edsource.org/2024/professor-...ch-case/720358

This is a friend of mine. This is one example that took me about half a second to pull up.

Was he a DEI hire? This sounds like a university that was poorly run and captured by the excessive woke culture bullshit. But it doesn't sound like he was harmed by DEI programming but rather a shitty administration. That is different than people being encouraged to be afraid of having a black surgeon perform surgery on them, or fly a plane.

You're seeing advocates of free speech who speak out in favor of CRT and DEI now have employment problems etc. That's not good either. I'm glad your friend won his lawsuit.

[frank ryan]

Oh this is cute ...

One of the Palestinian rabble rousers at Colombia has been picked up by ICE. He had permanent residency. This shouldn't be about whether or not you agree with their protests but it's alarming the federal government is punishing people here legating for saying things they didn't agree with. This is not a reaction to criminality.

He lost his green card and his lawyer doesn't know his location

[The_Tick]

Was he a DEI hire? This sounds like a university that was poorly run and captured by the excessive woke culture bullshit. But it doesn't sound like he was harmed by DEI programming but rather a shitty administration. That is different than people being encouraged to be afraid of having a black surgeon perform surgery on them, or fly a plane.

You're seeing advocates of free speech who speak out in favor of CRT and DEI now have employment problems etc. That's not good either. I'm glad your friend won his lawsuit.

He asked for an example of DEI and Woke ideology. This is an example of what he asked for. This is pervasive in academia.

[frank ryan]

He asked for an example of DEI and Woke ideology. This is an example of what he asked for. This is pervasive in academia.

Um, I think he was alluding to life and death stuff. Which is the kind of urgency that the cultural war stuff has. Stuff like diversity hires can cost lives. Reread Maximus' posts or ask him directly. I'm not intending this to invalidate your friend's situation or say it's not a problem. I think you missed all of that.