President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[beefytee]

Ugh. I put that comment about Russia in at the end as a joke. My main point was, let’s stop blaming everyone else but ourselves.

Playing the innocent victim card isn’t going to help. It’s the equivalent of saying “not my problem” when in fact it is everyone’s problem. “Oh, this country is so divided and the other side is to blame!” The division is the problem and leads to us getting to the point of having a “bad other side.” We all stepped in this steaming pile is excrement together.

[frank ryan]

We are an equally divided country. Presidential elections are won on razor thin margins these days. Candidate selection is incredibly important. Trump didnt win a landslide. The Dems had two chances at choosing candidates. In the snapshot of the 2024 election, they share culpability.

It's astonishing to me that people think Trump's rise to power happened in a vacuum. That it's just some critical mass of bone headed citizens too stupid to see the obvious. The post WWII institutions have failed to adapt to the modern information age to meet the needs of the populace. Like all bloated legacy organizations, they are slow to respond and stick to what has worked for them in the past. They come to work to serve themselves more than society. A backlash is inevitable. Then a destroyer is chosen to bring about change. The only reason that this destroyer is a right wing narcissistic asshole is because by 2014 almost every cultural and economic institution had been captured by the left. If the roles were reversed we would have Bernie Sanders destroying the system. I don't believe institutions captured by the right would have adapted any better.

You can blame the millions of middle-ground voters for wrongly believing institutions are broken. But the zeitgeist is bigger and more powerful than us all. The social contract is only stable when institutions are mostly apolitical and non partisan.

Bernie wouldn't intentionally be malicious. I think Trump/Musk are. They are bad people. It would help to accept it, and do the bothsides thing on this one.
No one is saying Trump's rise to power happened in a vacuum. I don't where you came up with that one.

Bernie has also been honest about his intentions

Russia was very much part of it not happening in a vacuum. There is plenty of data and perspective to back that up. You can't see the treatment of Zelenskyy by Trump and his mean girl sidekick, along with our diplomatic and security actions and come away with a different conclusion.

I don't fully agree with your take that every apparatus was captured by the left. Certainly not Law Enforcement, Intelligence or the Military, despite right-wingoshere kvetches about.

Much of academia and the arts yes.

The philosophy this destruction from Trump/Russell Vaugh/Musk/Yarvin is very dark. Conservatism is functionally dead at a national level.

[Northwestcoug]

Blame and shame the Republicans. They deserve it. But the Democrats are blowing an opportunity for even a speck of introspection. Their tent grew smaller over the course of Biden's presidency. They acted and governed as if Trump could never return to power, doing nothing to appeal to the disaffected Republicans or centrists. They didn't establish a unifying vision and squandered the post-Trump opportunity with further division. The Democrats who seem to understand this are Ro Khanna, Fetterman and Gavin Newsom. Newsom's podcast with Charlie Kirk was what they should have been doing for the past four years.

Yes. It seems like every election the winning team basically takes a 50:50 split and governs like they have a huge mandate. And then they overreach (or the opposing party effectively portrays it as one), and then the other party wins another close election and treats it like a huge mandate.

[frank ryan]

Blame and shame the Republicans. They deserve it. But the Democrats are blowing an opportunity for even a speck of introspection. Their tent grew smaller over the course of Biden's presidency. They acted and governed as if Trump could never return to power, doing nothing to appeal to the disaffected Republicans or centrists. They didn't establish a unifying vision and squandered the post-Trump opportunity with further division. The Democrats who seem to understand this are Ro Khanna, Fetterman and Gavin Newsom. Newsom's podcast with Charlie Kirk was what they should have been doing for the past four years.

That part is important because they are being actively harmful. I realize several don't agree with me, but that's where I'm coming from. They are doing harmful thing and when they are brought up, it isn't particularly helpful to flip the blame toward to the defeated party. A lot of people spend more time being critical of the democrats but yet lack awareness of the things MAGA has done and is doing.


You aren't wrong. I know a lot of people hate Newsom but I think he has the gravitas, intelligence and common sense to politic in this day and age. Going on Kirk's podcast, who is not a fair guy was helpful. The game has changed it is about influencers, not corporate media. I don't think that's a good thing. Rogan didn't make it possible for Harris to be interviewed and then made it seem like she was avoiding it. But the democrats have got to get better. Right-wing podcaster are backed up by big money - to a much greater degree than left wing ones. Some of that money - we know- has come from Russia.

The democrats need to change things up to have a better chance at winning. It's one thing to scrutinize democrats' failings when it comes to elections, but it is a different thing to blame them for what Trump does and has done. That isn't on them and should expect better from Republicans. It's not the democrats' fault Trump is submitting to Russia. You may not like how they campaigned or some democrats' positions on trans issues, but they tried to warn us about this stuff. They didn't put the tariffs in place.


A lot of people spend a lot more about bitching about liberals when Trump does shitty things, but remain relative muted when it comes to republicans a whole.

And how about the Republicans, who aren't partially responsible for this mess, but have devolved into being this mess? There is no point of entry for any moderating force or individual to steer things away from this mess.

[USUC]

That part is important because they are being actively harmful. I realize several don't agree with me, but that's where I'm coming from. They are doing harmful thing and when they are brought up, it isn't particularly helpful to flip the blame toward to the defeated party. A lot of people spend more time being critical of the democrats but yet lack awareness of the things MAGA has done and is doing.


You aren't wrong. I know a lot of people hate Newsom but I think he has the gravitas, intelligence and common sense to politic in this day and age. Going on Kirk's podcast, who is not a fair guy was helpful. The game has changed it is about influencers, not corporate media. I don't think that's a good thing. Rogan didn't make it possible for Harris to be interviewed and then made it seem like she was avoiding it. But the democrats have got to get better. Right-wing podcaster are backed up by big money - to a much greater degree than left wing ones. Some of that money - we know- has come from Russia.

The democrats need to change things up to have a better chance at winning. It's one thing to scrutinize democrats' failings when it comes to elections, but it is a different thing to blame them for what Trump does and has done. That isn't on them and should expect better from Republicans. It's not the democrats' fault Trump is submitting to Russia. You may not like how they campaigned or some democrats' positions on trans issues, but they tried to warn us about this stuff. They didn't put the tariffs in place.


A lot of people spend a lot more about bitching about liberals when Trump does shitty things, but remain relative muted when it comes to republicans a whole.

And how about the Republicans, who aren't partially responsible for this mess, but have devolved into being this mess? There is no point of entry for any moderating force or individual to steer things away from this mess.

I want to be clear about where my state of mind is in all of this. I view the GOP as a spent force. There are some death rattles of principles here and there, but they are feckless and hollow. Trump atop the GOP means it is just an organization for justifying whatever Trump wants. There is no national Republican Party. We have the Democratic Party and Trump. Trump will destroy and remake things that benefit him and his ego. But it will only last as long as Trump. The Democrats will be responsible for what comes next. For laying the foundation for new institutions to develop. The GOP's fate is tied to Trump. There is no deviating from the course they are on. But the DNC is at a crossroads. And I want them to be a moderate and a serious party.

It is unfair that the Democrats are held to a different standard. But they are. It's Trump's super power to win simply by rolling around in pig ship hoping his opponents join him. Once they do he's won.

[Northwestcoug]

As long as DOGE misrepresents savings millions for billions, the media is rightfully going to point out how many millions Trump spends to go to the south White House every week:

Donald Trump’s insistence on playing golf at his Florida courses has now cost American taxpayers more than $18 million since he regained the presidency, setting him on a pace to exceed the $151.5 million he spent in his first term, according to a HuffPost analysis.

On Saturday, Trump is playing golf for the 13th day of his 48 in office. It was his 10th day playing at his course in West Palm Beach, across the Intracoastal Waterway from his Mar-a-Lago country club home

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donal...b02f3ad1f4b2bb

Everyone knows how much other presidents spend money traveling. But in this austere economy where we can't even afford USAID and park rangers, showing how wasteful Trump is with taxpayer dollars is like shooting fish in a barrel.

[Maximus]

Econ 101

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[Moliere]

Russia did help him dude and he is paying them back

Russia helped him less than the Dems help him.

[frank ryan]

I want to be clear about where my state of mind is in all of this. I view the GOP as a spent force. There are some death rattles of principles here and there, but they are feckless and hollow. Trump atop the GOP means it is just an organization for justifying whatever Trump wants. There is no national Republican Party. We have the Democratic Party and Trump. Trump will destroy and remake things that benefit him and his ego. But it will only last as long as Trump. The Democrats will be responsible for what comes next. For laying the foundation for new institutions to develop. The GOP's fate is tied to Trump. There is no deviating from the course they are on. But the DNC is at a crossroads. And I want them to be a moderate and a serious party.

It is unfair that the Democrats are held to a different standard. But they are. It's Trump's super power to win simply by rolling around in pig ship hoping his opponents join him. Once they do he's won.

I appreciate your perspective. If you think I am holding the democrats harmless you probably haven't sorted past by resistance and abruptness I have about what I perceived as misspent rage. MAGA doesn't need less criticism, they need more. We accept everything and normalize it they win.

Some of my criticisms for the democrats might differ from yours but I damn well have loads of them.

There is a significant portion of great humans (I mean that sincerely) who constantly critique and blame democrats at every turn but when it comes to Trump are clearly uninformed, overly skeptical or become possessed by Hellen Keller.

[frank ryan]

Russia helped him less than the Dems help him.

Moli, that's just something I think isn't true. I'd challenge you to learn more about the Trump-Russia stuff before being dismissive of it.

[chrisrenrut]

Haha.

How is it that so many intelligent adults can be incapable of even the simplest form of nuance? Wow.

If every time Trump does or says something dumb or harmful, and your first reaction is to blame the democrats, then I think my analogies apply. The democrats fumbling the election is a couple of levels of indirect responsibility away from the shitty results. Trump is directly responsible. The enablers, Trump’s advisors, republican congress, and the MAGA hordes are a level closer of indirect responsibility. .

Blame the perpetrator! If your 401k balance takes a dive due to economic uncertainty due to tariffs, if your immigrant neighbor get picked up in an ICE raid, if your grocery bill goes up 50%, Trump is 99% responsible. Just like if Ukrainians die due to a ballistic missile, Russia is to blame, not NATO or Zelenskyy.

There is value in discussing what the democrats did wrong, and how to fix it for the mid term and 2028 elections. But it should be a separate topic from the stupid and harmful shit Trump is pulling. If that’s not nuanced enough for you, I’m sorry.

.

[Clark Addison]

This whole “who’s to blame for trump” is silly. America is to blame for trump. If you are American, you have trump stink on you. I have trump stink on me. As much as you or I would like to wash our hands off it or never have gotten dirty, we are Americans and stuck with it. All of us here are in that boat.

Well it is us that are responsible for it, but also the Russians!

Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos.

[Jeff Lebowski]

If every time Trump does or says something dumb or harmful, and your first reaction is to blame the democrats, then I think my analogies apply. The democrats fumbling the election is a couple of levels of indirect responsibility away from the shitty results. Trump is directly responsible. The enablers, Trump’s advisors, republican congress, and the MAGA hordes are a level closer of indirect responsibility. .

Blame the perpetrator! If your 401k balance takes a dive due to economic uncertainty due to tariffs, if your immigrant neighbor get picked up in an ICE raid, if your grocery bill goes up 50%, Trump is 99% responsible. Just like if Ukrainians die due to a ballistic missile, Russia is to blame, not NATO or Zelenskyy.

There is value in discussing what the democrats did wrong, and how to fix it for the mid term and 2028 elections. But it should be a separate topic from the stupid and harmful shit Trump is pulling. If that’s not nuanced enough for you, I’m sorry.

Yeah, this is a complete mischaracterization of what I have said.

[Jeff Lebowski]

The majority of the electorate is firmly in either the blue or the red camp and won't change their vote no matter what. Therefore, every presidential election is decided by a relatively narrow slice of Americans in the middle. The swing voters, independents, etc. Which is why political strategists focus so much time and attention on these voters. In the last election, there were three primary issues that had the biggest impact on this voting bloc and ended up determining the election.

1) The economy

While many economic indicators were good (stock market for example), people were still shell-shocked by the pandemic era inflation. Wages rose in addition to prices, but people tend to focus more on the higher prices. Folks on a fixed income were hit particularly hard.

2) The lack of a viable alternative

As dabrockster reminded us above, Joe Biden's stubbornness and ego were a massive problem. Not only did the democratic leadership not resist him, they actively engaged in a cover up of his cognitive decline. When he flamed out on national TV in the debate and was finally pushed aside, we were left with Kamala Harris who was a pathetically weak candidate and the VP for one of the least popular presidents in history. This was a disaster and it was self-inflicted.

3) Cultural issues

For years, and against all reason and common sense, democrats championed asinine woke nonsense, including DEI, life-altering surgeries/medication for minors, trans women in sports/prisons/etc, calling latinos "latinx" when 95% of them hate that term, meaningless land acknowledgement statements, pronoun gibberish, yada yada yada. All of these issues were extremely unpopular with the majority of Americans, including swing voters.

So when someone says that democratic failings helped get Trump elected, you would have to delusional to argue otherwise. And pointing out this simple objective fact does not in any way excuse Trump's horrible behavior. Are democrats responsible for every stupid thing Trump does? Of course not - that is absurd. Was it their ineptitude that was partially responsible for him getting elected? Of course it was. If you can't hold those two thoughts in your mind at the same time, I don't know what to tell you.

I think some democrats are starting to come to terms with these issues (Newsom, Fetterman, etc). But unless there is a deep and honest self-reckoning in the democratic party, get ready for long-term MAGA. God help us.

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By the way, a recent poll shows approval of democrats in congress is at an all-time low: 21%. And 41% of people in the democratic party want it to become more moderate.

[Maximus]

Republicans need to realize the maga bs on woke and dei is nonsense.

No one here has been negatively affected by diversity programs. It's all nonsense and a thinly viewed attempt at limiting education or books.

Just look at how Elon is implementing anti dei and you can see its all nonsense . Democrats aren't responsible for foxnews inventing a fake culture war and republicans buying it