SCOTUS

[falafel]

Did you see that the city of San Francisco has had the Appeal To Heaven flag flying outside city hall for the last few years? THEY ARE MAGA CRAZIES AND PRO COUP!

Do they also fly the Stars and Stripes upside down in the chambers of the City Council?

[All-American]

If you only knew 2 things about someone, that they flew an upside down flag outside their home after J6 and that they flew the pine tree flag outside their beach home, you would immediately think they were MAGA crazies and pro coup.

If all I knew was that they flew a flag upside down after January 6, I'd have thought, "huh, weird that they would do that. But, I guess these are kind of crazy times, what with those idiots storming the Capitol and all."

If all I knew was that and the pine tree thing, I'd have thought, "huh, weird that they wouldn't just fly a normal flag the normal way. Whatever."

Until reading about it in this thread, I had no idea that either of these things had any particular connection to January 6, or even one side of the issue versus the other. That's why I keep coming back here, I guess.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Do they also fly the Stars and Stripes upside down in the chambers of the City Council?

Wouldn't surprise me. Common way to protest the Dobbs decision.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Until reading about it in this thread, I had no idea that either of these things had any particular connection to January 6, or even one side of the issue versus the other. That's why I keep coming back here, I guess.

Nor did anyone else, apparently.

[Bo Diddley]

People have been flying the Stars and Stripes upside down in protest for years. I'm surprised at how few people take notice. What exactly they are protesting can be inferred by what is happening.

The Capitol Police should have flown the flag upside down because thou were in actual distress.

[falafel]

If all I knew was that they flew a flag upside down after January 6, I'd have thought, "huh, weird that they would do that. But, I guess these are kind of crazy times, what with those idiots storming the Capitol and all."

If all I knew was that and the pine tree thing, I'd have thought, "huh, weird that they wouldn't just fly a normal flag the normal way. Whatever."

Until reading about it in this thread, I had no idea that either of these things had any particular connection to January 6, or even one side of the issue versus the other. That's why I keep coming back here, I guess.

I think he was suggesting that you consider the question with your present-day knowledge.

[falafel]

Nor did anyone else, apparently.

Mmmm, I don't think that's fair. The fact that the symbols were not well-known or recognizable to the public as MAGA was sort of the point, or the the point you're missing. There is lots of evidence right out in the open about J6 types, Proud Boys and Oath Keeper types, and general MTG-style MAGA morons pushing the idea that they should fly the flag upside down on Jan. 6 in solidarity and protest. The pine tree flag, apparently, is a traditional symbol of New England and the words "an appeal to heaven" or to God are taken from a John Locke treatise where he uses it to describe the right of revolution. Several years ago, a right wing christian nationalist evangelical preacher adopted the flag as a symbol of the movement to make america christian again. He started giving the flag out to people that he met with and talked with about the movement's agenda and goals. That includes Trump, as well as Mike Johnson, who hangs the flag outside his office along with the US Flag and the Louisiana flag. To those who know what its recent meaning is and who gave Johnson the flag, its a wink and a nod that Johnson is on their side on those issues.

[All-American]

I think he was suggesting that you consider the question with your present-day knowledge.

With my present-day knowledge, my reaction would probably be the same.

[Northwestcoug]

Did you see that the city of San Francisco has had the Appeal To Heaven flag flying outside city hall for the last few years? THEY ARE MAGA CRAZIES AND PRO COUP!

Are you clear on the timing of this? I saw an Eric Erickson post right after the beach house flag kerfluffle that the SF city hall flew this flag. Trying to find the source, I saw this:

https://parkerhiggins.net/2013/09/th...-center-plaza/

it happened in 2013, long before MAGA had any popular meaning. So even though it may be true that that flag hasn’t had a significant connection to January 6th, the fact that SF flew it does nothing to bolster that argument.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Are you clear on the timing of this? I saw an Eric Erickson post right after the beach house flag kerfluffle that the SF city hall flew this flag. Trying to find the source, I saw this:

https://parkerhiggins.net/2013/09/th...-center-plaza/

it happened in 2013, long before MAGA had any popular meaning. So even though it may be true that that flag hasn’t had a significant connection to January 6th, the fact that SF flew it does nothing to bolster that argument.

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[Jeff Lebowski]

Martha's Vineyard, 2022.

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[Jeff Lebowski]

BLM protestors in 2020 (pre- Jan 6, but after the alleged christian nationalist movement):

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[Jeff Lebowski]

Mmmm, I don't think that's fair. The fact that the symbols were not well-known or recognizable to the public as MAGA was sort of the point, or the the point you're missing. There is lots of evidence right out in the open about J6 types, Proud Boys and Oath Keeper types, and general MTG-style MAGA morons pushing the idea that they should fly the flag upside down on Jan. 6 in solidarity and protest.

Where is all that "out in the open" evidence? Why is it so hard to find on the internet, pre-NYT article? Did someone magically scrub the internet?

I fundamentally disagree with the narrative that anyone on the right who flies an upside down flag is doing it to support Jan 6th.

The pine tree flag, apparently, is a traditional symbol of New England and the words "an appeal to heaven" or to God are taken from a John Locke treatise where he uses it to describe the right of revolution. Several years ago, a right wing christian nationalist evangelical preacher adopted the flag as a symbol of the movement to make america christian again. He started giving the flag out to people that he met with and talked with about the movement's agenda and goals. That includes Trump, as well as Mike Johnson, who hangs the flag outside his office along with the US Flag and the Louisiana flag. To those who know what its recent meaning is and who gave Johnson the flag, its a wink and a nod that Johnson is on their side on those issues.

Again, just because this one guy spread this idea and some Jan 6th people caught on, doesn't mean that everyone who flies it supports that cause.

Far and away the most common flag on January 6th was a normal US flag. Should we now make assumptions about people who fly the US flag routinely? I have seen people draw that conclusion, btw.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I am about halfway through that episode. I will weigh in once I finish.

I think the second flag is far weaker than the first, in terms of a connection to Jan 6.

I finished the episode on the way home. I love the NYT Daily podcast and they are usually pretty balanced, but that was disappointing. They only gave 60 seconds or so to an opposing narrative and they limited it to a few Fox News sound-bites. At one point, the reporter said, "Now we can't know for sure why Ms. Alito flew those two flags or what she really feels about Jan 6th, but..." and then she proceeded to draw all kinds of conclusions as if she knows exactly what she was thinking at the time. Oh brother.

[USUC]

This is all an interesting conversation on ethics and I think most of you here are coming from an honest place. I think there does need to be more ethical standards for the highest court. However, the ethical gray areas of RBG or Breyer were never a concern for those political operatives now raising the alarm. The progressive political pundits are manufacturing a Supreme Court in crisis because they have lost the ability to use it for political power and are working to delegitimize it. The selective outrage gets tiresome and the transparent hypocrisy isnt fooling anyone anymore. You can cry whataboutism or "Trump is a special threat" all you want, but everyone knows what's going on. Also, this court has not been kind to Trump.