SCOTUS

[frank ryan]

Oh yeah… especially with Trump and Hunter Biden in court. My prediction is Trump will be acquitted in NY and the Dems will lose their minds. Hunter will be found guilty of the gun charges but Grandpa Joe will pardon him and GOP’ers will lose their minds. And Bobby Jr will get 20 percent of the vote even with worm holes in his brain.

Hunter Biden being in court isn't equivalent to Trump's multiple criminal and civil entanglements.

[Shaka]

They really haven't. MAGA is in its own galaxy of idiocy. That group doesn't any peer.

The lunatic fringe on the left is every bit as loony as the far right. In fact, I'd say they were more loony.

[Maximus]

Which lunatic fringe on the left comes close to trying to overturn the election ?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Dude, just because your life experience and a cursory google search don't provide with enough clarity to believe the concerns are legitimate doesn't mean they aren't. I love you man, but don't insinuate not agreeing with you means a lack of ability to critically think. That's unfair and unkind.

I think your minds made up that it's silly and aren't open to altering that perspective.

One key difference is your willingness to give Alito the benefit of the doubt. I don't have that.

I find pictures or republicans flying the pride flag but that doesn't mean the symbol isn't primarily associated with progressives.

I never said the distress flag was only used by right wing types. This was not new to me. Militia types, preppers, faccists etc have displayed the flag that way going back at least a few decades.

Think tax protestors, Randy Weaver, think Montana Freeman and Tim McVeigh.

"Cursory google search"? That's funny. Your argument that the flag incident is prima facie evidence of extremism is the kind of thing that ought to be easily validated by evidence. Like the kind you can google. That is not the case.

The almost complete lack of association between January 6 and upside down flags prior to the NYT article is simple and objective evidence that this entire episode is manufactured nonsense. I have demonstrated that upside down flags have been used by both liberals and progressives and most of that usage has been benign. And unless you are a mindreader, you have no idea what his wife was thinking when she put that flag up briefly. You are ignoring all of these simple facts and clinging to the narrative that Alito is some kind of unhinged extremist. Because it confirms your biases, I guess.

I've probably had a lot more encounters with extremist type than you have. Nothing to brag about or be ashamed of. That's partially informed by the populations I've worked with professionally, as well past activism and hanging in the Bay Area punk rock seen.

I bet I know more extremists than you do.

It surprises me that this concern is so controversial. Alito wasn't flying the upside down flag for anything left wing reason.

Good grief, nobody is arguing that she put it up for left-wing reasons. The point is that flying an upside down flag has been a common thing for a long time and it doesn't mean you support extreme causes and it doesn't mean you support January 6.

[Jeff Lebowski]

They really haven't. MAGA is in its own galaxy of idiocy. That group doesn't any peer.

One of my core beliefs is that when you are talking about big groups (roughly equal halves of the country in this case) one should never assume that your political opponents are all bad and your side is all virtuous, or fundamentally different people. That is the very definition of tribalism and leads to things like believing in grand conspiracies like the Big Lie. I know a ton of trump supporters who I believe are being duped by a narcissistic sociopath, but they are good people. And perhaps if my life experiences matched theirs, including what kinds of information I was constantly exposed to, I might be in the same boat.

I promise you that democrats are capable of exactly the same kind of confirmation bias, low-information lifestyles, tribalism, etc that MAGA people do. It is part of being human.

[frank ryan]

One of my core beliefs is that when you are talking about big groups (roughly equal halves of the country in this case) one should never assume that your political opponents are all bad and your side is all virtuous, or fundamentally different people. That is the very definition of tribalism and leads to things like believing in grand conspiracies like the Big Lie. I know a ton of trump supporters who I believe are being duped by a narcissistic sociopath, but they are good people. And perhaps if my life experiences matched theirs, including what kinds of information I was constantly exposed to, I might be in the same boat.

I promise you that democrats are capable of exactly the same kind of confirmation bias, low-information lifestyles, tribalism, etc that MAGA people do. It is part of being human.

I don't think everyone who voted for Trump is bad, you're assuming that. I've mentioned that there are friends and family I love that vote that way.

My opposition for Trump and those around him come from the evidence they've provided in terms of how awful they are. I don't think any group is above that being capable of those behaviors. But right now it's inaccurate to present "both sides" as being the same. Their behaviors are not the same. One side has been pounding the drum beat of civil war.

My frustration doesn't come from some primarily partisan place. I think normalizing what is going on in that movement is dangerous, and can lead to tolerating or downplaying damage being done to our Republic.

[Moliere]

Which lunatic fringe on the left comes close to trying to overturn the election ?

Well, for one the election denier in chief Hillary Clinton. She called Trump and illegitimate president in 2019 (almost four years after she lost). Sure, she didn’t try to overturn the government through a coup so it’s not nearly as bad as what Trump did, but her continual election denial sure didn’t help the country come together.

[Bo Diddley]

One of my core beliefs is that when you are talking about big groups (roughly equal halves of the country in this case) one should never assume that your political opponents are all bad and your side is all virtuous, or fundamentally different people. That is the very definition of tribalism and leads to things like believing in grand conspiracies like the Big Lie. I know a ton of trump supporters who I believe are being duped by a narcissistic sociopath, but they are good people. And perhaps if my life experiences matched theirs, including what kinds of information I was constantly exposed to, I might be in the same boat.

I promise you that democrats are capable of exactly the same kind of confirmation bias, low-information lifestyles, tribalism, etc that MAGA people do. It is part of being human.

More like equal thirds.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I don't think everyone who voted for Trump is bad, you're assuming that. I've mentioned that there are friends and family I love that vote that way.

My opposition for Trump and those around him come from the evidence they've provided in terms of how awful they are. I don't think any group is above that being capable of those behaviors. But right now it's inaccurate to present "both sides" as being the same. Their behaviors are not the same. One side has been pounding the drum beat of civil war.

My frustration doesn't come from some primarily partisan place. I think normalizing what is going on in that movement is dangerous, and can lead to tolerating or downplaying damage being done to our Republic.

What on earth? This is all I said:

And the democrats are showing that they are capable of being every bit as stupid as republicans/maga.

That is objectively true. Your hyper-defensiveness every time someone says something negative about democrats is bizarre.

[falafel]

You (and others) have been claiming that it is clearly associated with January 6 and the Stop the Steal movement. Well, if that is in fact the case, Google should be swamped with search results after Jan 6 and prior to the Alito case associating an upside down flag with Stop the Steal, January 6, etc. Here is a google search customized to show results from Jan 1, 2020 to May 1, 2024

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22u...2024&tbm=#ip=1

Take a look at the results. It is nothing like what you are claiming. In fact, if anything there are more hits for articles about people flying upside down flags in protest of the Dobbs ruling overturning Roe v Wade:

https://www.10tv.com/article/news/lo...9-914854e3a13a



How flying the flag is a BIPATISAN act of rebellion:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...125240215.html


It is - and always has been - a sign of protest or distress used by both liberals and conservatives. The idea that after Jan 6 it was universally understood as supporting the insurrection is pure fiction. It is remarkable how this narrative has been swallowed whole by so many people without any critical thought or investigation.

Jeff, I'm wondering if your thoughts on these issues have evolved over the weekend since a second MAGA associated flag was reported as having been flown at Alito's New Jersey beach house. Two houses, two symbols that are at least arguably related to Jan 6/Stop the Steal. Alito has apparently refused to comment on the second house after shrugging off the first flag. I'm assuming you listened to the The Daily episode today.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Jeff, I'm wondering if your thoughts on these issues have evolved over the weekend since a second MAGA associated flag was reported as having been flown at Alito's New Jersey beach house. Two houses, two symbols that are at least arguably related to Jan 6/Stop the Steal. Alito has apparently refused to comment on the second house after shrugging off the first flag. I'm assuming you listened to the The Daily episode today.

I am about halfway through that episode. I will weigh in once I finish.

I think the second flag is far weaker than the first, in terms of a connection to Jan 6.

[old_gregg]

But your wife would be correct in that scenario

[YOhio]

SCOTUS should hire Val Hale he'd put an end to all this.

[fusnik]

I am about halfway through that episode. I will weigh in once I finish.

I think the second flag is far weaker than the first, in terms of a connection to Jan 6.

You can have one Stop the Steal/Insurrection flag on your property, not two.

If you only knew 2 things about someone, that they flew an upside down flag outside their home after J6 and that they flew the pine tree flag outside their beach home, you would immediately think they were MAGA crazies and pro coup.

But tell us again what the NR and Anne Coulter believe about flying an upside down flag!

[Jeff Lebowski]

You can have one Stop the Steal/Insurrection flag on your property, not two.

If you only knew 2 things about someone, that they flew an upside down flag outside their home after J6 and that they flew the pine tree flag outside their beach home, you would immediately think they were MAGA crazies and pro coup.

But tell us again what the NR and Anne Coulter believe about flying an upside down flag!

Did you see that the city of San Francisco has had the Appeal To Heaven flag flying outside city hall for the last few years? THEY ARE MAGA CRAZIES AND PRO COUP!