FOS just got needier?

[eldiente]

What we can't go backpacking without FOS? Pretty sure I still can. FOS is a POS.

The reference was to BSA camps..... Of course you can backpack (but liability insurance covers you courtesy of FOS funds )

You may not like it, but without FOS scouting dies.....

[Jeff Lebowski]

The reference was to BSA camps..... Of course you can backpack (but liability insurance covers you courtesy of FOS funds )

You may not like it, but without FOS scouting dies.....

What's the downside?

[Jeff Lebowski]

what is stupid is that if there were such a thing as an active, openly gay LDS boy, you know he'd be expected to participate in scouts. The church wouldn't prevent or discourage him from attending his quorum activities.

That's a great point. I am going to use it the next time this comes up in HPG.

[eldiente]

Downside to FOS?..... I suspect is the guilt implied by the Church "leaning" on members to participate.

Every non-profit has expenses... BSA isn't really out of line ther in most councils IMHO

[Eddie]

what is stupid is that if there were such a thing as an active, openly gay LDS boy, you know he'd be expected to participate in scouts. The church wouldn't prevent or discourage him from attending his quorum activities.

That was my thought as well. The church encourages gay men (and boys) to participate in church and activities. Would BSA rule out folks that the church wanted to have participate?

It then occurred to me that BSA may not have an issue with people struggling with same gender attraction (other than if they somehow attribute a higher risk factor of sexual abuse occurring) who is living an "active LDS" lifestyle. But they would have an issue with an openly gay individual in a gay relationship living a gay lifestyle and "flaunting" it in front of all of the other leaders and boys. (And really - I'm not sure what I mean by "flaunting" - but I assume that would be a concern.)

So by eliminating all gays, they don't put themselves in a position of having to identify who are the worthy gays and who are the unworthy gays.

Because the money doesn't stay in your area.

It goes to pay bloated salaries of lifetime adult "scouters" who mange the BSA council's.

Not necessarily true. I've seen some of the numbers and percentages. And some of this does go to full-time "scout" employees.

But I've seen the salaries of some of the folks they have on staff. And I think that you would agree that people who's salary is competitive with your average starting salary for an elementary school teacher in Utah probably is not fair to describe as being "bloated".

Some portion of the FOS money goes toward paying the operating expenses of camps that the council owns. Some goes towards training for volunteer youth leaders (whether they fully take advantage of it or not) and a not insignificant amount goes towards liability insurance as well.

Love it or hate it - an organization like BSA does require some full-time staff. And while you may argue that some of the upper management types are over paid, the staff certainly are not.

That said - if folks don't want to support FOS, whatever. That is your choice.

I am curious to know if/how that may impact the local troops. Like how much do camp fees increase if they don't meet FOS goals, or do they increase fees to the chartering organizations per boy and leader. I don't know - I just assume that they end up making up the difference somewhere.

[Jeff Lebowski]

No I was asking about the downside of scouting dying.

[pellegrino]

That was my thought as well. The church encourages gay men (and boys) to participate in church and activities. Would BSA rule out folks that the church wanted to have participate?

It then occurred to me that BSA may not have an issue with people struggling with same gender attraction (other than if they somehow attribute a higher risk factor of sexual abuse occurring) who is living an "active LDS" lifestyle. But they would have an issue with an openly gay individual in a gay relationship living a gay lifestyle and "flaunting" it in front of all of the other leaders and boys. (And really - I'm not sure what I mean by "flaunting" - but I assume that would be a concern.)

So by eliminating all gays, they don't put themselves in a position of having to identify who are the worthy gays and who are the unworthy gays.



Not necessarily true. I've seen some of the numbers and percentages. And some of this does go to full-time "scout" employees.

But I've seen the salaries of some of the folks they have on staff. And I think that you would agree that people who's salary is competitive with your average starting salary for an elementary school teacher in Utah probably is not fair to describe as being "bloated".

Some portion of the FOS money goes toward paying the operating expenses of camps that the council owns. Some goes towards training for volunteer youth leaders (whether they fully take advantage of it or not) and a not insignificant amount goes towards liability insurance as well.

Love it or hate it - an organization like BSA does require some full-time staff. And while you may argue that some of the upper management types are over paid, the staff certainly are not.

That said - if folks don't want to support FOS, whatever. That is your choice.

I am curious to know if/how that may impact the local troops. Like how much do camp fees increase if they don't meet FOS goals, or do they increase fees to the chartering organizations per boy and leader. I don't know - I just assume that they end up making up the difference somewhere.

please don't call them that.

[Jarid in Cedar]

No I was asking about the downside of scouting dying.

About as much downside as ending up naked in the women's changing room at the playboy mansion.

[Indy Coug]

About as much downside as ending up naked in the women's changing room at the playboy mansion.

You mean awaiting the resulting felony charges?

[Jarid in Cedar]

You mean awaiting the resulting felony charges?

Depends on whether you were invited or not.

[Eddie]

No I was asking about the downside of scouting dying.

Well, for one thing, a lot less young men would be able to put "Eagle Scout" on a resume.

In all honesty - the biggest downside is simply that BSA gives some sense of structure to the weekday activities of the YM. I would guess that most LDS wards do such a poor job of planning and following that structure that the loss of BSA would be somewhat mitigated.

The LDS church would then have to determine what they want to do instead, if anything. And in all honesty, the old Duty to God program - that had a lot more activities - would probably be a fair replacement for it. Particularly if it was beefed up a little.

I learned recently that the LDS church also approached the Girl Scout organization at one point and asked them about being the activity arm of the YW program. GSA turned the church down based on their assessment that the church was somewhat discriminatory against certain populations. In many ways I feel like the girls really missed out. Not because they don't get to wear those cool uniforms, but because the current YW program as implemented in most wards tends to be focused on fluff. I wish they got out in the woods a little more and had more experiences that were not necessarily based on scriptures or craft items.

[Moliere]

No camps without funding from FOS

Not even close to true. There are plenty of camps that scouts can attend that are not affiliated with the BSA. Sure they can't attend a BSA ran "scout camp" but any scout leader with organizational skills can set up a similar camp for a troop and get just as many merit badges passed off without charging $250 per boy.

[Moliere]

No I was asking about the downside of scouting dying.

No more scouting threads on CUF?

[Eddie]

please don't call them that.

What do you want me to call them?

Some people are gay.

Some people are struggling with it.

I think they are different from each other. Sure, they have some similarities. But I think there are also differences. And the folks I think BSA wouldn't have a problem with are the ones who are struggling with it. I think they would have a problem with folks who have accepted it.

[mUUser]

Well, for one thing, a lot less young men would be able to put "Eagle Scout" on a resume.

In all honesty - the biggest downside is simply that BSA gives some sense of structure to the weekday activities of the YM. I would guess that most LDS wards do such a poor job of planning and following that structure that the loss of BSA would be somewhat mitigated.

The LDS church would then have to determine what they want to do instead, if anything. And in all honesty, the old Duty to God program - that had a lot more activities - would probably be a fair replacement for it. Particularly if it was beefed up a little.

I learned recently that the LDS church also approached the Girl Scout organization at one point and asked them about being the activity arm of the YW program. GSA turned the church down based on their assessment that the church was somewhat discriminatory against certain populations. In many ways I feel like the girls really missed out. Not because they don't get to wear those cool uniforms, but because the current YW program as implemented in most wards tends to be focused on fluff. I wish they got out in the woods a little more and had more experiences that were not necessarily based on scriptures or craft items.

Put your kids in highly competitive sports/music/whatever programs and be done with it. :rockon1: