FOS just got needier?

[eldiente]

I pledge my heart to.... my hands to......., etc.

4H.

Seriously?????? HAve you ever been to the county fair?

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...9QEwAg&dur=275

[smokymountainrain]

Having lived in a European and Latin American area where Scouting isn't the "activity arm" of the YM program, I observe simply...... thank goodness for the structure, aims, and methods of Scouting as utilized in the good ol' USA LDS church.

Overseas YM programs struggle mightily (with dedicated and motivated leaders) to have a structured program of any quality.

For all it's warts, BSA provides a turn-key program with eight methods for the betterment of YM. (http://www.nesa.org/methods.html). Advancement and outdoor programs are often cited as "scouting", but in reality those are only two of the eight methods. Focusing solely on those things is detrimental to the bigger picture that is a part of scouting. LDS units are great at focusing on achievement.... we struggle in some of the other areas.

Also, remember that greater than 30% of LDS Scouts are Cub Scout age. What would replace that?

Activity days.

[eldiente]

Better than Cub Scouts?

Activity days.

a real "Barrel full" of good ideas here that would hold the interest of grade-school boys...... (sarcasm intended)

http://www.lds.org/manual/faith-in-g...-boys?lang=eng

[creekster]

Isn't D-HO using them as nouns in that sentence? He uses them as a list of "words," not in a descriptive sense.

A list of adjectives includes red, blue, large and small. Did I just make them nouns?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Having lived in a European and Latin American area where Scouting isn't the "activity arm" of the YM program, I observe simply...... thank goodness for the structure, aims, and methods of Scouting as utilized in the good ol' USA LDS church.

Overseas YM programs struggle mightily (with dedicated and motivated leaders) to have a structured program of any quality.

Surely you don't think that is the only difference between US and non-US units?

For all it's warts, BSA provides a turn-key program with eight methods for the betterment of YM. (http://www.nesa.org/methods.html). Advancement and outdoor programs are often cited as "scouting", but in reality those are only two of the eight methods. Focusing solely on those things is detrimental to the bigger picture that is a part of scouting. LDS units are great at focusing on achievement.... we struggle in some of the other areas.

Let's take a look at those eight methods:

Ideals. (Scout oath, law, motto, etc.) We are a religion. Coming up with a list of beliefs and ideals is not a problem.

Patrols. Quorums. Done.

Outdoor Programs. Nobody loves the outdoors more than me. But anyone can plan and execute a campout. Furthermore, some people just aren't that much into the outdoors. Why force it? What gospel objective are we shooting for here?

Advancement. While I think this is oversold, this would probably be the hardest part to replace. Nice for the kids to have a goal and get recognition for achieving it.

Association with Adults. Done.

Personal Growth. See item 1.

Leadership Development. Easily replaced. We already have quorum leadership structure in place.

Uniform.

Also, remember that greater than 30% of LDS Scouts are Cub Scout age. What would replace that?

Cub scouting is just a bunch of fun little activities. Easiest thing in the world to replace.

[eldiente]

Jeff - I have a recollection that you have some scouting experience (11 yr old leader?) and from that I assume you are at least conversant with scouting terminology....

Have you ever participated in Woodbadge?

That experience was eye-opening for me as to the full potential of scouting.

[The_Douger]

Having lived in a European and Latin American area where Scouting isn't the "activity arm" of the YM program, I observe simply...... thank goodness for the structure, aims, and methods of Scouting as utilized in the good ol' USA LDS church.

Overseas YM programs struggle mightily (with dedicated and motivated leaders) to have a structured program of any quality.

For all it's warts, BSA provides a turn-key program with eight methods for the betterment of YM. (http://www.nesa.org/methods.html). Advancement and outdoor programs are often cited as "scouting", but in reality those are only two of the eight methods. Focusing solely on those things is detrimental to the bigger picture that is a part of scouting. LDS units are great at focusing on achievement.... we struggle in some of the other areas.

Also, remember that greater than 30% of LDS Scouts are Cub Scout age. What would replace that?

Did you guys still work on scouts that much after you were 14?

I look back and we didn't do a whole lot of it once we moved on to teacher's quorum.

I earned my Eagle when I was 14, and was done and I didn't ever attend an activity after my court of Honor that was really scouts related. We did some river rafting and camping and fishing trips and stuff like that, as well as some service projects, but none of it was at BSA approved places and stuff.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Jeff - I have a recollection that you have some scouting experience (11 yr old leader?) and from that I assume you are at least conversant with scouting terminology....

Have you ever participated in Woodbadge?

That experience was eye-opening for me as to the full potential of scouting.

I am currently the 11-yr-old scout leader in our ward. I have served in all levels of scouting (Cubs, 11-yr-old, Scoutmaster, YM Pres, committee, etc.). I have 22 years of leadership service in scouting.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that Scouting is a bad thing*. I just think it is inefficient and outdated. It was probably a perfect fit for 1950's-1960's America. Not so anymore. We could do much better.

*I have to put a huge asterisk on that statement. To the extent that the BSA teaches and promotes discrimination by virtue of their anti-gay stance, I would say that Scouting is currently a bad thing. I continue to serve because I love the boys and they are mostly oblivious to this issue, but I cheer every time one of these big corporations drops support for the BSA. If they don't wake up and smell the coffee soon, the BSA will be forever tarnished as a bigoted organization. It might be too late already.

[The_Douger]

It's too late. They've made a stand, and they've made their bed.

[eldiente]

I am currently the 11-yr-old scout leader in our ward. I have served in all levels of scouting (Cubs, 11-yr-old, Scoutmaster, YM Pres, committee, etc.). I have 22 years of leadership service in scouting.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that Scouting is a bad thing*. I just think it is inefficient and outdated. It was probably a perfect fit for 1950's-1960's America. Not so anymore. We could do much better.

*I have to put a huge asterisk on that statement. To the extent that the BSA teaches and promotes discrimination by virtue of their anti-gay stance, I would say that Scouting is currently a bad thing. I continue to serve because I love the boys and they are mostly oblivious to this issue, but I cheer every time one of these big corporations drops support for the BSA. If they don't wake up and smell the coffee soon, the BSA will be forever tarnished as a bigoted organization. It might be too late already.

It seems to me that dismissing scouting because of that single issue is a bit like throwing the baby out with the bath water. But I've been wrong before

Thanks for sharing.

[Moliere]

I like scouting. I hate scouting the way the church uses it. The church neuters scouting to the point that its frustrating for leaders both inside and outside the church.

[Northwestcoug]

Seriously?????? HAve you ever been to the county fair?

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...9QEwAg&dur=275

I'm actually quite serious. My three youngest children are involved in 4H. It's a great volunteer-run organization. Kids start around Cub Scout age. They pick which club they want to be involved in, choose projects they will be working on for the next year, and present them at fair. I think it's more productive than scouts.

[eldiente]

I'm actually quite serious. My three youngest children are involved in 4H. It's a great volunteer-run organization. Kids start around Cub Scout age. They pick which club they want to be involved in, choose projects they will be working on for the next year, and present them at fair. I think it's more productive than scouts.

Your experience sounds similar to mine (10 years as participant, 7 years as parent of two kids involved ) except for the emphasis placed on the grand champions at the county fair. Why does there always have to be a winner? That part frustrates since the winning projects tend to be parent accomplishments..... Scouting emphasizes the success of all to a greater extent IMHO.

[creekster]

I'm actually quite serious. My three youngest children are involved in 4H. It's a great volunteer-run organization. Kids start around Cub Scout age. They pick which club they want to be involved in, choose projects they will be working on for the next year, and present them at fair. I think it's more productive than scouts.

My daughter did 4H She loved it. Goats and sheep. It was a great experience and she actually made some decent coin selling the market lambs.

[hostile]

My daughter did 4H She loved it. Goats and sheep. It was a great experience and she actually made some decent coin selling the market lambs.

My BIL is in the fair board for his county in No Cal - he lives in Grass Valley. I am always amazed at how much he reports that the lambs, calves, pigs, etc. bring in at auction. He buys a pig every year because he likes the flavor compared to what you can get in the grocery store.