Occupy Wall Street

[TripletDaddy]

When the job market is bad, the point is finding a job, even if it's not the best paying job. Sometimes you just have to take whatever you can get. When I graduated from law school, I didn't have a job at all, nor did I have any leads on one. Finally, after I was admitted to the bar, I got a part-time job for $20 an hour. Not exactly what I imagined when I started law school.

When my dad lost his job when I was in high school and had a hard time finding a job, what did he do? He got a job at Discover Card's call center. Here's a guy with an MBA, former VP of a mortgage company with years of experience, and the best thing he could find was being a customer service rep. At the same time, he and my mom started two companies. It wasn't the greatest situation for my dad, but I learned that you don't always have the luxury of waiting for your dream job or even a job that pays "a living wage."

This is the essence of my post above. Claims that one cannot find a job that pays a "living wage" are tough to stomach, although perhaps they are true, I cannot say for sure. I think what people really mean is that they cannot find a job they like in this really shaky economy. Again, I wouldn't disagree with that statement. Lots of people are underemployed right now.

[Moliere]

I assumed this would be the response, but you've completely missed the point. Expecting anyone without specialized talents to join the military to find a job is exactly the kind of bullshit this movement is protesting against. What happens if one is young and poor and unskilled but doesn't feel particularly great about American Imperialism? What if one doesn't want to risk getting killed for a bullshit cause? For many people, the military is simply a welfare program. Those on welfare shouldn't be lecturing others about getting a job.

Wow, just wow. [redacted]

[Goatnapper'96]

I guarantee you the average OWSer has more education than the average grunt soldier. I know that we're all expected to worship military folks, but I expect them to avoid making ignorant political statements. They aren't over there for the grand patriotic reasons we'd like to think. Most of them are over there because they didn't have any better options. It's just sad that they don't realize the irony of their situation.

That is what I am talking about Professor Woot just throw it down on them like the badass wanker you are!

WOOT!WOOT!WOOT!! Raise the woot!

And with all that book learnin' in the hallowed halls of this country's higher learning temples the smelly folks at OWS are still unable to pay any bills. In this man's Army we practiced personal hygiene as a force protection measure. Now that is the kind of skills the free market values!

Across the plains of Texas from sea to shining sea...from Detroit down the Houston and New York to LA...well there is pride in every American heart and it is time we stand and say........

[woot]

When the job market is bad, the point is finding a job, even if it's not the best paying job. Sometimes you just have to take whatever you can get. When I graduated from law school, I didn't have a job at all, nor did I have any leads on one. Finally, after I was admitted to the bar, I got a part-time job for $20 an hour. Not exactly what I imagined when I started law school.

When my dad lost his job when I was in high school and had a hard time finding a job, what did he do? He got a job at Discover Card's call center. Here's a guy with an MBA, former VP of a mortgage company with years of experience, and the best thing he could find was being a customer service rep. At the same time, he and my mom started two companies. It wasn't the greatest situation for my dad, but I learned that you don't always have the luxury of waiting for your dream job or even a job that pays "a living wage."

And my dad had a paper route for a year or so after he got canned as the controller of a hospital. I worked at Applebee's for a few months between leaving my lucrative consulting career and going to grad school. Cool stories all, bro.

[TripletDaddy]

I never said they were skilled, and I'm not going to get into what people should be doing with the money they have. The lack of educational opportunities and exposure to values like saving money contribute to poverty. Some can't survive, some can't afford "toys and perks". Both are a problem, unless you really think that enjoyment of life isn't something one should value.

True, but you did say that the average OWSer had a certain degree of education above that of the average soldier. Since the average soldier has a GED/HS, then you are guaranteeing that the average OWSer has a college education. Further, you are saying that the average college educated individual cannot earn a "living wage." How are you defining living wage? I think you used that term strategically, so i will indulge your point. What is a "living wage?" Maybe that is where we all disagree. Does your definition of "living wage" include iPads and flat screens? I'm guessing some would disagree with that definition.

Enjoyment of life should be one of our most earnest pursuits. Suck the marrow out of bones, that sort of thing. But I also feel that it is incumbent on folks to set proper expectations and that those expectations ebb and flow with the natural cycles of life. Some years are good ones, some years....well....no iPad for you.

[RobinFinderson]

flatscreens are cheap Health insurance is not. I think that a living wage would be enough to buy quality health insurance for self and dependents, be able to afford the copays for regular health checkups for all insured, be able to afford regular dental care for all family members, be able to put sufficient healthy food on the table, live in a home where the parents have a separate bedroom from the children (though kids may be sleeping 2 or 3 to a room), have a working vehicle that allows the family both occupational choice for workers, and school choice for students, and be able to afford the maintenance on that car to ensure that it operates safely, and be able to afford the insurance on the car to make sure that it is operated responsibly. I also think that if you accept the Mormon view that no success can make up for failure in the home, you also need to have on parent/guardian in a position to spend significant time with kids when they aren't in school, because if you let kids run loose in a place like South Central, with no parental interaction until six or nine at night (when the parents get home from a shift) then South Central is going to claim those kids... just about every time.

[The_Tick]

flatscreens are cheap Health insurance is not. I think that a living wage would be enough to buy quality health insurance for self and dependents, be able to afford the copays for regular health checkups for all insured, be able to afford regular dental care for all family members, be able to put sufficient healthy food on the table, live in a home where the parents have a separate bedroom from the children (though kids may be sleeping 2 or 3 to a room), have a working vehicle that allows the family both occupational choice for workers, and school choice for students, and be able to afford the maintenance on that car to ensure that it operates safely, and be able to afford the insurance on the car to make sure that it is operated responsibly. I also think that if you accept the Mormon view that no success can make up for failure in the home, you also need to have on parent/guardian in a position to spend significant time with kids when they aren't in school, because if you let kids run loose in a place like South Central, with no parental interaction until six or nine at night (when the parents get home from a shift) then South Central is going to claim those kids... just about every time.

Utopia!

Lofty goals which will never be reached, and aren't even reasonable.

I will probably never "get" you. I think you are my exact opposite.

[RobinFinderson]

Utopia!

Lofty goals which will never be reached, and aren't even reasonable.

I will probably never "get" you. I think you are my exact opposite.

Everything about my 'living wage' is designed to ensure that poor children aren't hobbled for life by the circumstances of their birth:

• Make sure the kids can visit the doctor for both well checkups as well as emergency care.
• Make sure the kids' teeth aren't a source of blood infections, and make srue their smile doesn't limit future employment opportunities.
• Make sure the kids have access to healthy food.
• If the kids are in a neighborhood where the school is broken, make sure they can get a quality education some place else.
• Make sure the kids have supervision so they don't get into trouble with the police.

Some Utopia, where we simply make sure that children don't fall through the cracks. I understand that single men and women are able to 'get by' in disgusting ways that are extremely cheap. I think that a 'living wage' changes when kids are involved, and that it is our social responsibility to children (the weakest among us) that should define what a 'living wage' is. Social programs can decrease the 'living wage,' making it possible to meet children's needs with a low paying job, but the people who oppose defining a 'living wage' at a level that actually allows adults to meet the needs of children also tend to be the same people who oppose social programs that could cover the difference.

[TripletDaddy]

flatscreens are cheap Health insurance is not. I think that a living wage would be enough to buy quality health insurance for self and dependents, be able to afford the copays for regular health checkups for all insured, be able to afford regular dental care for all family members, be able to put sufficient healthy food on the table, live in a home where the parents have a separate bedroom from the children (though kids may be sleeping 2 or 3 to a room), have a working vehicle that allows the family both occupational choice for workers, and school choice for students, and be able to afford the maintenance on that car to ensure that it operates safely, and be able to afford the insurance on the car to make sure that it is operated responsibly. I also think that if you accept the Mormon view that no success can make up for failure in the home, you also need to have on parent/guardian in a position to spend significant time with kids when they aren't in school, because if you let kids run loose in a place like South Central, with no parental interaction until six or nine at night (when the parents get home from a shift) then South Central is going to claim those kids... just about every time.

how much would all of that cost? Can you itemize your list?

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Is SLC still being occupied? If so is it near enough temple square to make a two for one out of the afternoon?

[Katy Lied]

And my dad had a paper route for a year or so after he got canned as the controller of a hospital. I worked at Applebee's for a few months between leaving my lucrative consulting career and going to grad school.

And you can't draw a parallel between your father's willingness to do whatever it took to make some honest money, and your willingness to do the same, and your subsequent success in life?

[Moliere]

flatscreens are cheap Health insurance is not. I think that a living wage would be enough to buy quality health insurance for self and dependents, be able to afford the copays for regular health checkups for all insured, be able to afford regular dental care for all family members, be able to put sufficient healthy food on the table, live in a home where the parents have a separate bedroom from the children (though kids may be sleeping 2 or 3 to a room), have a working vehicle that allows the family both occupational choice for workers, and school choice for students, and be able to afford the maintenance on that car to ensure that it operates safely, and be able to afford the insurance on the car to make sure that it is operated responsibly. I also think that if you accept the Mormon view that no success can make up for failure in the home, you also need to have on parent/guardian in a position to spend significant time with kids when they aren't in school, because if you let kids run loose in a place like South Central, with no parental interaction until six or nine at night (when the parents get home from a shift) then South Central is going to claim those kids... just about every time.

I wish I had a time machine so I could read a similar list in the year 2050. Actually, I'd be interested to read a similar list compiled by people on every continent. I bet most wouldn't include a car and car insurance. It's interesting how our perception of what is considered necessary for life changes with time or location.

When it all comes down to it, we are all greedy, just some of us are better at self-deception.

[old_gregg]

Everything about my 'living wage' is designed to ensure that poor children aren't hobbled for life by the circumstances of their birth:

• Make sure the kids can visit the doctor for both well checkups as well as emergency care.
• Make sure the kids' teeth aren't a source of blood infections, and make srue their smile doesn't limit future employment opportunities.
• Make sure the kids have access to healthy food.
• If the kids are in a neighborhood where the school is broken, make sure they can get a quality education some place else.
• Make sure the kids have supervision so they don't get into trouble with the police.

Some Utopia, where we simply make sure that children don't fall through the cracks. I understand that single men and women are able to 'get by' in disgusting ways that are extremely cheap. I think that a 'living wage' changes when kids are involved, and that it is our social responsibility to children (the weakest among us) that should define what a 'living wage' is. Social programs can decrease the 'living wage,' making it possible to meet children's needs with a low paying job, but the people who oppose defining a 'living wage' at a level that actually allows adults to meet the needs of children also tend to be the same people who oppose social programs that could cover the difference.

so why is this about bankers? sounds like it should be about the hmo model and inefficacy of city/state/national governments.

[RobinFinderson]

how much would all of that cost? Can you itemize your list?

It would depend on region. Assume family of three. Assume Los Angeles (since we are both somewhat familiar with that area). I'm going to guess about the cost of health insurance, but would be happy for someone who knows more to help out with a better estimate. I'm also going to use info I know about the cost of living in South Central, since we are talking about a very basic quality of life:

$1000/month -- Rent, two bdrm, one bath apartment
$550/month --Health Insurance for family (assuming $20 co-pays, one visit a month, plus OTC incidentals @15$/month).
$75/month -- Dental care (assume no insurance, $150 a visit, two visits/ year for three people).
$100/month -- Water and electric.
$500/month -- Healthy food (assumes that it costs less than $6/day per person).
$100+$100+$100+$150 = $450/month -- (payment + insurance + maintenance + fuel) Vehicle payments, insurance and maintenance (assumes one inexpensive fuel-efficient vehicle for whole family, with two 15-gallon fillups @ 3.90/gallon).

That comes to about $2675/month, or $32100/year.

[Mormon Red Death]

It would depend on region. Assume family of three. Assume Los Angeles (since we are both somewhat familiar with that area). I'm going to guess about the cost of health insurance, but would be happy for someone who knows more to help out with a better estimate. I'm also going to use info I know about the cost of living in South Central, since we are talking about a very basic quality of life:

$1000/month -- Rent, two bdrm, one bath apartment
$550/month --Health Insurance for family (assuming $20 co-pays, one visit a month, plus OTC incidentals @15$/month).
$75/month -- Dental care (assume no insurance, $150 a visit, two visits/ year for three people).
$100/month -- Water and electric.
$500/month -- Healthy food (assumes that it costs less than $6/day per person).
$100+$100+$100+$150 = $450/month -- (payment + insurance + maintenance + fuel) Vehicle payments, insurance and maintenance (assumes one inexpensive fuel-efficient vehicle for whole family, with two 15-gallon fillups @ 3.90/gallon).

That comes to about $2675/month, or $32100/year.

With Taxes that comes to about $16.60 and hour (one person working 40 hours a week).