The Police Brutality Thread

[wuapinmon]

what is a child?

By definition, someone under age 18; by convention, someone still in grade school whose parents could've resolved this situation. I contend that anyone who thinks that this level of violence used against a minor (since you appear to be going the semantic route instead of addressing the larger issue) or anyone--regardless of age--who isn't being violent towards others is in the gall of bitterness.

A young person.

And, size-wise, this girl weighs less than half what that man did.

[The_Douger]

The cop in this video is a friend of mine and is a good dude. Had the kid not started cursing loudly, he probably would have been fine. Had the kid not started kicking my buddy when he was being removed from the Segway, he probably would have gotten an earful and nothing more. I think we can all be happy that the kid's brother/constitutional lawyer is present.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xofhoxK7F5I

Honestly, it doesn't help for them to sit there and badger the cops while they're working. Keep your mouth shut, let them work, film it, and take them to court for it later where you can present your case. They're worsening the situation. You aren't going to get out of being arrested once they've decided you're going to be arrested.

[Eddie]

I probably come down somewhere in the middle.

How long do you let this girl completely disrupt the class? How often do you let her get away with it? If every time she is disruptive, the response is to remove everyone else from the room and chat with her, and if that doesn't work call her parents to come talk to her, and ultimately suspend her - doesn't that get old after a while?

I think history is important to put something like this in context. If this was her first time being disruptive, I might show a little more effort before physically removing her. In this clip, it is difficult to say what that history is. And ultimately, if someone completely refuses to comply with order, physically assisting them to do so will be required. BTW - I'm not convinced her parents could've gotten her to move by talking to her. Folks that show that amount of disrespect for authority are usually showing that disrespect for authority at home as well.

GM - love the video of your buddy. Does he now carry around a document with all mall policies on them?

I can understand someone wanting to get clarification, particularly if they feel they are being treated unfairly. But sometimes shouting questions right then in the moment is not the best approach for that to work.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

The teacher asked for her phone and she refused the teacher during class.

The teacher called an administrator who asked her to leave the classroom with him/her. She again refused.

So they called the campus police officer. He asks her at least twice to leave with him. Another refusal. The campus police officer tries to physically remove her and she resists him.

I don't think I would have flung her five feet across the room, but definitely an amount of force was warranted and the officer is entitled to some leeway when she starts flailing around like that. From what I can gather, these officers are taught to use an overwhelming amount of force when someone physically resists arrest so they don't get hurt themselves, have a suspect reach for a weapon, etc.

Finally, you simply can't have a student openly defying teachers, administrators and finally the campus police.

[The_Douger]

By definition, someone under age 18; by convention, someone still in grade school whose parents could've resolved this situation. I contend that anyone who thinks that this level of violence used against a minor (since you appear to be going the semantic route instead of addressing the larger issue) or anyone--regardless of age--who isn't being violent towards others is in the gall of bitterness.



And, size-wise, this girl weighs less than half what that man did.

So, you want them to call her mom to come down and make her get out of the chair after multiple adults have already told her to get out of the chair and she won't? Class has already been significantly disrupted, and will continue to be disrupted until her mother or father arrives a half hour later, or whenever that is. I don't think that's the solution.

Two adults could easily remove someone her size from that desk much easier than she was removed.

[old_gregg]

By definition, someone under age 18; by convention, someone still in grade school whose parents could've resolved this situation. I contend that anyone who thinks that this level of violence used against a minor (since you appear to be going the semantic route instead of addressing the larger issue) or anyone--regardless of age--who isn't being violent towards others is in the gall of bitterness.

i'm not the one strategically deploying the use of the word child rather than minor. and the idea that nobody under 18 should ever be physically touched by a police officer unless they are affirmatively acting violently towards another is absurd. lol at calling her parents.

And, size-wise, this girl weighs less than half what that man did.

so maybe she should obey the instructions of someone bigger than her when that person has legal authority to use physical force?

[TripletDaddy]

is there a separate arrest protocol for a minor that is resisting arrest inside a school and one that is resisting arrest outside of school? if you resist arrest, cops generally are going to tackle and wrestle you until you comply. Why does it matter that this person is sitting in a desk in terms of receiving more leeway?

[Shaka]

l whose parents could've resolved this situation.
.

This is funny. If I behaved this way and they chose to handle it your way my dad would have removed me the same way the cop did. I'd wager the parents of most of my friends would have done the same thing. The big difference is that we feared/respected our parents with the result being we didn't behave this way.

[wuapinmon]

I probably come down somewhere in the middle.

How long do you let this girl completely disrupt the class? How often do you let her get away with it? If every time she is disruptive, the response is to remove everyone else from the room and chat with her, and if that doesn't work call her parents to come talk to her, and ultimately suspend her - doesn't that get old after a while?

If I'm the principal, this is what I do. "Teacher X, take your class to the library right now and stay there until you're notified you may return to the classroom." To the girl, "If you get up now and come with me, you'll just be suspended this time and will be expelled if this happens again. If you do not, your parents will be called AND you will be expelled now and have to attend alternative school. Do you want that?" If she refused to move, then I would have the resource officer sit outside the classroom door until she has to go to the restroom or her parents get there. If the parents can't get her to move, I would turn off the lights and let her sit in the dark. She would move eventually, and could then have calmed down or have been taken into custody.

Disrupting a class shouldn't get you arrested. It sure has hell shouldn't get a little girl heaved across a room so hard that she collides with the opposite wall. There's something wrong with us if we think that using violence in this situation is acceptable.

So, you want them to call her mom to come down and make her get out of the chair after multiple adults have already told her to get out of the chair and she won't? Class has already been significantly disrupted, and will continue to be disrupted until her mother or father arrives a half hour later, or whenever that is. I don't think that's the solution.

Two adults could easily remove someone her size from that desk much easier than she was removed.

I disagree. The escalation to violence was brutality.

is there a separate arrest protocol for a minor that is resisting arrest inside a school and one that is resisting arrest outside of school? if you resist arrest, cops generally are going to tackle and wrestle you until you comply. Why does it matter that this person is sitting in a desk in terms of receiving more leeway?

I think my main issue with this is very notion that we need a police officer to remove a child from a room over a cellphone. There's no difference in resisting arrest. That she's even being arrested is the issue, well, that and the brutality of her being slammed and then thrown several feet.

This is funny. If I behaved this way and they chose to handle it your way my dad would have removed me the same way the cop did. I'd wager the parents of most of my friends would have done the same thing. The big difference is that we feared/respected our parents with the result being we didn't behave this way.

You come from a different place. She was wrong for refusing to move, but the brutality here exceeds what I think is acceptable use of force. Just because your dad could've done it doesn't mean that he would've. My dad could've too, easily, no doubt in my mind, but my dad wouldn't have unless there was a need to resort to violence. There is no need to resort to violence when a kid is being a little shit.

[cougjunkie]

If I'm the principal, this is what I do. "Teacher X, take your class to the library right now and stay there until you're notified you may return to the classroom." To the girl, "If you get up now and come with me, you'll just be suspended this time and will be expelled if this happens again. If you do not, your parents will be called AND you will be expelled now and have to attend alternative school. Do you want that?" If she refused to move, then I would have the resource officer sit outside the classroom door until she has to go to the restroom or her parents get there. If the parents can't get her to move, I would turn off the lights and let her sit in the dark. She would move eventually, and could then have calmed down or have been taken into custody.

Disrupting a class shouldn't get you arrested. It sure has hell shouldn't get a little girl heaved across a room so hard that she collides with the opposite wall. There's something wrong with us if we think that using violence in this situation is acceptable.



I disagree. The escalation to violence was brutality.



I think my main issue with this is very notion that we need a police officer to remove a child from a room over a cellphone. There's no difference in resisting arrest. That she's even being arrested is the issue, well, that and the brutality of her being slammed and then thrown several feet.



You come from a different place. She was wrong for refusing to move, but the brutality here exceeds what I think is acceptable use of force. Just because your dad could've done it doesn't mean that he would've. My dad could've too, easily, no doubt in my mind, but my dad wouldn't have unless there was a need to resort to violence. There is no need to resort to violence when a kid is being a little shit.

Great idea to remove all of the other kids and disrupt their right to learn, and let the problem stay. I am guessing if the principal would have asked nicely she would have got up to leave with no problem. All of these suggestions, are much easier said than done, of course you think you are smarter than everyone involved. I am sure they hadn't thought to threaten her with suspension and calling her parents. You are a genius.

[wuapinmon]

You are a genius.

That's going in my signature.

[Bo Diddley]

The teacher asked for her phone and she refused the teacher during class.

The teacher called an administrator who asked her to leave the classroom with him/her. She again refused.

So they called the campus police officer. He asks her at least twice to leave with him. Another refusal. The campus police officer tries to physically remove her and she resists him.

I don't think I would have flung her five feet across the room, but definitely an amount of force was warranted and the officer is entitled to some leeway when she starts flailing around like that. From what I can gather, these officers are taught to use an overwhelming amount of force when someone physically resists arrest so they don't get hurt themselves, have a suspect reach for a weapon, etc.

Finally, you simply can't have a student openly defying teachers, administrators and finally the campus police.

The rule is to use only the force necessary, and only as long as needed. That's very subjective. Yes, they're taught to use more force on the suspect than what the suspect is fighting back with. Of course officer discretion is a fundamental pillar in use of force. I would not have used that much force to subdue her. That's the amount of force I used to use with highly combative inmates inside the big house.

Should the officer have used less force? Probably. Let the review process take it's course, but even if they find the use of force justified, that doesn't mean it was the best course of action either.

[Green Monstah]

I don't have an issue with the cop trying to remove her from the desk, but because we're dealing with a minor, I think I would have taken a step back and re-evaluated my approach after she resisted his attempts to stand her up. That extra step may not change the end result, but it demonstrates that the physical approach taken was not a knee-jerk reaction.

[Soccermom]

I don't have an issue with the cop trying to remove her from the desk, but because we're dealing with a minor, I think I would have taken a step back and re-evaluated my approach after she resisted his attempts to stand her up. That extra step may not change the end result, but it demonstrates that the physical approach taken was not a knee-jerk reaction.

I don't have a problem with it either. Seems like these days school teachers and administrators are handcuffed when it comes to dealing with disruptive and disobedient students. There was a girl in my daughter's kindergarten class who would always try to run away and escape the campus. Our principal and office staff would have to guard doors and chase her around without touching her. Some days she would throw tantrums in the classroom by throwing and destroying objects. Nobody was allowed to restrain her so they had to remove the other students and watch her destroy the classroom. Removing the entire class for each of these episodes was extremely disruptive to the other 17 kids in the class, it was rough that the teacher had to watch her items tossed and broken. And the school board wouldn't let the principal kick her out of the class. I think they feared a lawsuit or something, but geez we have become so soft as a society and I don't think it can all be blamed on attorneys and liability concerns.

[old_gregg]

I don't have a problem with it either. Seems like these days school teachers and administrators are handcuffed when it comes to dealing with disruptive and disobedient students. There was a girl in my daughter's kindergarten class who would always try to run away and escape the campus. Our principal and office staff would have to guard doors and chase her around without touching her. Some days she would throw tantrums in the classroom by throwing and destroying objects. Nobody was allowed to restrain her so they had to remove the other students and watch her destroy the classroom. Removing the entire class for each of these episodes was extremely disruptive to the other 17 kids in the class, it was rough that the teacher had to watch her items tossed and broken. And the school board wouldn't let the principal kick her out of the class. I think they feared a lawsuit or something, but geez we have become so soft as a society and I don't think it can all be blamed on attorneys and liability concerns.

did they try calling her parents and waiting until she had to go to the bathroom?!