The Police Brutality Thread

[Nakoma]

For those defending this dude, do you think he handled it the "right" way, or was his behavior simply justifiable under all relevant circumstances? Do you think your opinion would change if it were your daughter?

Does anyone know "all relevant circumstances" to express an informed opinion whether his behavior was or wasn't justifiable.

[The_Douger]

For those defending this dude, do you think he handled it the "right" way, or was his behavior simply justifiable under all relevant circumstances? Do you think your opinion would change if it were your daughter?

If my daughter is acting in such a manner that three adults have asked her to leave a class and she won't leave and won't turn over her cell phone, and upon being physically removed, she begins striking him in the upper extremity, at that point, you have to consider how you've raised this kid (I get there are circumstances with this particular child). If my kid is acting like that at school with authority figures, I'm ok with them doing what they did.

If you get another adult and each grab her arms and around her torso, yes, it would be easier to remove her and maybe they should have considered having more than one person remove her.

The guy doesn't deserve to have his life ruined and lose his job over this stuff.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

JL is making a lot of sense these past couple pages. If any of you havent read that Publicly Shamed book you need to do it. It's a quick read and a very important perspective for the information age.

I read an article in the New York Times about this. The author interviewed that woman that made that comment about flying to Africa and saying "I hope I don't get AIDS. Just kidding I'm white." The author seemed to indicate that the public shaming could have a more deleterious effect on someone long term than a prison sentence. It's awful.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/ma...ccos-life.html

The outrage mob is basically a bunch of people that can't wait to pat themselves on the back along with their peers in their social media circles. Social media allows you to do that with several hundred people, and then those several hundred people all have their social media peers. It allows for people like Wuap to greatly augment their sanctimonious shittiness. Twitter and Facebook have pried open an unsavory part of the human psyche.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I read an article in the New York Times about this. The author interviewed that woman that made that comment about flying to Africa and saying "I hope I don't get AIDS. Just kidding I'm white." The author seemed to indicate that the public shaming could have a more deleterious effect on someone long term than a prison sentence. It's awful.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/ma...ccos-life.html

The outrage mob is basically a bunch of people that can't wait to pat themselves on the back along with their peers in their social media circles. Social media allows you to do that with several hundred people, and then those several hundred people all have their social media peers. It allows for people like Wuap to greatly augment their sanctimonious shittiness. Twitter and Facebook have pried open an unsavory part of the human psyche.

That case was featured prominently in the book.

There was another case recently that wasn't in the book, but was a textbook example of the public shaming phenomenon. Famous British scientist made a quip about women in the laboratory at a speech in Japan. Some journalist tweeted about it and within days both he AND HIS WIFE were fired from their positions at University College London. Also dropped from major scientific organizations within days. I remember seeing outraged feminists posting about it on FB for days. Problem is, he was quoted out of context in a completely unethical manner. Oh well, too late. Distinguished career ruined.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2...w-mary-collins
https://reason.com/archives/2015/07/...the-real-story

[Color Me Badd Fan]

That case was featured prominently in the book.

There was another case recently that wasn't in the book, but was a textbook example of the public shaming phenomenon. Famous British scientist made a quip about women in the laboratory at a speech in Japan. Some journalist tweeted about it and within days both he AND HIS WIFE were fired from their positions at University College London. Also dropped from major scientific organizations within days. I remember seeing outraged feminists posting about it on FB for days. Problem is, he was quoted out of context in a completely unethical manner. Oh well, too late. Distinguished career ruined.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2...w-mary-collins
https://reason.com/archives/2015/07/...the-real-story

The famous British scientist was a Nobel prize winner. Professional shit-stirrers know how to whip up idiots into a frenzy. What's sad is that the University was so cowardly in the face of the mob.

The Duck Dynasty people taught everyone how to deal with the outrage mob. Weather the storm for a week or two and they'll find another target.

[wuapinmon]

It allows for people like Wuap to greatly augment their sanctimonious shittiness. Twitter and Facebook have pried open an unsavory part of the human psyche.

I said exactly nothing about this on any social media site (being generous there, Dude) besides CUF. Add this to your Book of Sand.

[wuapinmon]

Dude, we are FB friends. I have seen your discussions. They are often interesting, but your sphere of influence there isn't dramatically different than this forum. And for the sake of what we are discussing, the distinction between the two is moot.



Clearly you and I have a different opinion regarding the impact of public shaming on cases like this. When you say "I'm perfectly fine with the authorities taking their time to see what really happened, but...", do you honestly think that these cases are processed fairly once they blow up nationally? Seriously?

Do you honestly think that a single thing I said about this on facebook (which was precisely zero) or CUF contributed in any way whatsoever to what happened to that officer? Seriously?

Surely you cannot. A good 1/2 of my facebook friends are students or former students. My students don't exactly fall into the same demographics as people far away in the West do. I keep certain discussions off my facebook wall because they might be inflammatory to people without the high levels of education possessed by many of the posters here. There's also an age--and by extension, wisdom--difference between the two mediums. I post certain things there and certain things here because the audiences are not the same, and I value the feedback I get here, the interaction, and the arguments. I was joshing you about John Dehlin.

[Bo Diddley]

I read an article in the New York Times about this. The author interviewed that woman that made that comment about flying to Africa and saying "I hope I don't get AIDS. Just kidding I'm white." The author seemed to indicate that the public shaming could have a more deleterious effect on someone long term than a prison sentence. It's awful.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/ma...ccos-life.html

The outrage mob is basically a bunch of people that can't wait to pat themselves on the back along with their peers in their social media circles. Social media allows you to do that with several hundred people, and then those several hundred people all have their social media peers. It allows for people like Wuap to greatly augment their sanctimonious shittiness. Twitter and Facebook have pried open an unsavory part of the human psyche.

I think the force was excessive. Does saying that make me sanctimonious?

[Nakoma]

I think the force was excessive. Does saying that make me sanctimonious?

Even if you do think there was excessive force, did the guy deserve to be fired? There is a continuum between doing nothing and firing the guy. A suspension without pay, additional required training, etc. would have been sufficient consequence for what occurred, IMO.

[Bo Diddley]

Even if you do think there was excessive force, did the guy deserve to be fired? There is a continuum between doing nothing and firing the guy. A suspension without pay, additional required training, etc. would have been sufficient consequence for what occurred, IMO.

Absolutely agree. But now you're on the other side of the coin. What went into that decision?

[Nakoma]

Absolutely agree. But now you're on the other side of the coin. What went into that decision?

I'm not. I'm stating that even if you were correct there was excessive force, the punishment given doesn't fit the offense. This guy's law enforcement career is effectively over. The chances of him getting another law enforcement job is practically nil. I'd be surprised any agency would hire a guy who had been fired for use of excessive force.

[Bo Diddley]

I'm not. I'm stating that even if you were correct there was excessive force, the punishment given doesn't fit the offense. This guy's law enforcement career is effectively over. The chances of him getting another law enforcement job is practically nil. I'd be surprised any agency would hire a guy who had been fired for use of excessive force.

So no amount of prior history could make this the last straw? The punishment might not be fitting the excessive force, but rather everything else + the excessive force.

You just argued,

Does anyone know "all relevant circumstances" to express an informed opinion whether his behavior was or wasn't justifiable.

Do you know all the relevant circumstances to express an informed opinion whether his firing was or wasn't justifiable?

[Nakoma]

So no amount of prior history could make this the last straw? The punishment might not be fitting the excessive force, but rather everything else + the excessive force.

You just argued,

Do you know all the relevant circumstances to express an informed opinion whether his firing was or wasn't justifiable?

You claimed it was excessive force. Accepting that contention for sake of argument, his termination was disproportionate to the offense. Neither of us know all the relevant circumstances. Maybe this guy is a rogue cop with lots of problems; maybe, he's just a victim of an internet lynch mob. The fact the kids at the school where he worked protested in favor of him probably indicates otherwise, but it's a moot point now.

[Bo Diddley]

You claimed it was excessive force. Accepting that contention for sake of argument, his termination was disproportionate to the offense. Neither of us know all the relevant circumstances. Maybe this guy is a rogue cop with lots of problems; maybe, he's just a victim of an internet lynch mob. The fact the kids at the school where he worked protested in favor of him probably indicates otherwise, but it's a moot point now.

I agree with everything you said, except for the protest. There's too much potential for bias as I've stated before.

[Jeff Lebowski]

You claimed it was excessive force. Accepting that contention for sake of argument, his termination was disproportionate to the offense. Neither of us know all the relevant circumstances. Maybe this guy is a rogue cop with lots of problems; maybe, he's just a victim of an internet lynch mob. The fact the kids at the school where he worked protested in favor of him probably indicates otherwise, but it's a moot point now.

I listened to the supervisor who fired him at the press conference and he didn't say anything about prior behavior. If that it happened, you would think it would be worth a mention. And of course, the only reason you do a press conference for something like this is because it has blown up in the national media.