The Police Brutality Thread

[Northwestcoug]

Movement to transfer traffic enforcement from NYPD to DOT gains steam. Not sure if it will change this:

Streetsblog recently reported that of the 440 tickets police issued to people for biking on the sidewalk in 2018 and 2019, 374 — or 86.4 percent — of those where race was listed went to Black and Hispanic New Yorkers. The wildly disproportionate stats followed another report showing that cops issued 99 percent of jaywalking tickets to Black and Hispanic people in the first quarter of this year.

...but it can’t do worse.

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2020/06/...t-gains-steam/

Baby steps.

[Uncle Ted]

The Dixie Chicks are now just "The Chicks". LOL.

I thought the Dixie Chicks were dead.


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[Jeff Lebowski]

I thought the Dixie Chicks were dead.


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No, you’re probably thinking of Earl.

[Uncle Ted]

The Antifa kids are just imaginary friends of Frank's...

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There is nothing to worry about.

[beefytee]

No, you’re probably thinking of Earl.

Well done.

[cowboy]

I was curious, so I pulled up some data. Poverty and race appear to share responsibility for the problem between police officers and African Americans.

I began by questioning whether cops were targeting African Americans because of race or because the cops' experience had conditioned them to be more aggressive. Black men are 6 times more likely to commit homicides and 3 times more likely to commit violent crime than white men. This supports the theory cops that expect black men more likely to be criminals, and therefore cops are more likely to be on-guard/aggressive. As with most data, these statistics tell only part of the story.

Violent crime is more prevalent in poor and low-income neighborhoods, and the violent crime rate between black and non-black perpetrators is not statistically different after adjusting for income. So criminal behavior is correlated with low income, and low income areas are disproportionately populated by African Americans. This suggests cops are more likely to be suspicious of black men because cops inaccurately associate African Americans with crime based on their experience, the topline statistics, or both. The fact that Hispanic crime rates are much lower than African American crime rates, and the anecdotal observation that reports of excessive force by police against Hispanics is lower than excessive force against black men, leads me to believe cops (and probably the general population) in aggregate are guilty of racial profiling but they are not necessarily racist. Obviously, every group and rule has exceptions.

[old_gregg]

I began by questioning whether cops were targeting African Americans because of race or because the cops' experience had conditioned them to be more aggressive.

i don't disagree with much of what you say here, but that is a distinction without a difference.

Black men are 6 times more likely to commit homicides and 3 times more likely to commit violent crime than white men. This supports the theory cops that expect black men more likely to be criminals, and therefore cops are more likely to be on-guard/aggressive. As with most data, these statistics tell only part of the story.

put another way, black men are more likely to be arrested, charged and convicted of homicides and violent crime. there are no clean inputs at any level of the criminal justice system--the outcomes are much worse for black men across the board. black men are the victims of much harsher sentencing outcomes. i think this is more symptomatic of a major problem than it is illuminating exculpatory evidence of cop behavior.

Violent crime is more prevalent in poor and low-income neighborhoods, and the violent crime rate between black and non-black perpetrators is not statistically different after adjusting for income. So criminal behavior is correlated with low income, and low income areas are disproportionately populated by African Americans. This suggests cops are more likely to be suspicious of black men because cops inaccurately associate African Americans with crime based on their experience, the topline statistics, or both. The fact that Hispanic crime rates are much lower than African American crime rates, and the anecdotal observation that reports of excessive force by police against Hispanics is lower than excessive force against black men, leads me to believe cops (and probably the general population) in aggregate are guilty of racial profiling but they are not necessarily racist. Obviously, every group and rule has exceptions.

i don't necessarily disagree with this, and i agree that the explanation is much more nuanced than "cops hate black people." the real answer probably has something to do with the fact that cops are more comfortable using force and acting aggressively towards populations that they view to be marginalized and less likely to have the ability and resources to be able to seek a remedy for unauthorized/unwarranted force and aggression. for my money, that is the root of the problem: because internal accountability mechanisms are broken or inadequate (or, at least, cops view them to be), police officers potentially view the risk of acting outside the scope of how he or she should act as low in situations with marginalized subjects. that is bad. the prevalence of surveillance cameras, cell phone cameras, bodycams and dashcams has illuminated the problems attendant to that. there is also a huge problem with shitty cops leaving departments under auspicious circumstances and being swiftly hired by other departments due to a large shortage in experienced law enforcement labor.

[cowboy]

i don't disagree with much of what you say here, but that is a distinction without a difference.

It was an introduction.

put another way, black men are more likely to be arrested, charged and convicted of homicides and violent crime. there are no clean inputs at any level of the criminal justice system--the outcomes are much worse for black men across the board. black men are the victims of much harsher sentencing outcomes. i think this is more symptomatic of a major problem than it is illuminating exculpatory evidence of cop behavior.

I wasn't trying to paint it as "illuminating exculpatory evidence." I was simply trying to interpret the data. I readily acknowledge my interpretation may be incorrect, and it is almost definitely over-simplified.

i don't necessarily disagree with this, and i agree that the explanation is much more nuanced than "cops hate black people." the real answer probably has something to do with the fact that cops are more comfortable using force and acting aggressively towards populations that they view to be marginalized and less likely to have the ability and resources to be able to seek a remedy for unauthorized/unwarranted force and aggression. for my money, that is the root of the problem: because internal accountability mechanisms are broken or inadequate (or, at least, cops view them to be), police officers potentially view the risk of acting outside the scope of how he or she should act as low in situations with marginalized subjects. that is bad. the prevalence of surveillance cameras, cell phone cameras, bodycams and dashcams has illuminated the problems attendant to that. there is also a huge problem with shitty cops leaving departments under auspicious circumstances and being swiftly hired by other departments due to a large shortage in experienced law enforcement labor.

I agree with most of this. Whether "cops are more comfortable using force and acting aggressively towards populations that they view to be marginalized" may be debatable, but I have no data to debate it one way or the other. What you say in the sentences following is, I believe, spot on. Unions don't bear the full responsibility, but they bear a lot of it. We need to protect good cops who are unjustly accused, and make sure the bad cops never carry a badge again. There is ample evidence that most cops who use excessive force will do it again, and/or have a history of such behavior. That needs to stop. The good cops would enjoy a better reputation, and the marginalized public would be safer.

[Moliere]

CHOP is no more. They declared victory and quit.

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Ha, that is a funny statement to read. It’s like they got two weeks into the experiment and started to realize that running a city/government is harder than it looks and it requires more than just weed and good vibes. They probably didn’t realize they’d have to start dealing with real problems and they probably didn’t want to, so they just closed up shop and went back home to their parents basements.

[SeattleUte]

CHOP is no more. They declared victory and quit.

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Fake news. Not true.

[Uncle Ted]

The Police Brutality Thread

It seems that Pelosi and Schumer started drinking too early in the day...

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They can't even remember who they are pandering for. Sad.

[Jeff Lebowski]

It seems that Pelosi and Schumer started drinking too early in the day...

That can't even remember who they are pandering for. Sad.

How come you never mock Trump when he says stupid stuff like this?

[All-American]

Come on, now. She may have actually meant George Kirby.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Kirby

[Pelado]

Come on, now. She may have actually meant George Kirby.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Kirby

A recent edit, I'm sure:

In light of Black Lives Matters and protests in honor of George Floyd, Nancy Pelosi has vowed to name the Police Reform Bill after George Kirby.

[cowboy]

A recent edit, I'm sure:

You didn't finish the paragraph:

In light of Black Lives Matters and protests in honor of George Floyd, Nancy Pelosi has vowed to name the Police Reform Bill after George Kirby. He also had explosive sex with Alexandria Orcasio-Cortez.