Zohran Mamdani - Democratic Socialist Mayor of NYC

[originalsocal]

Nah. One of the better POTUS that we have had. I know we see things differently.

The Dime was a Social Democrat before is was cool to be a Social Democrat.

[frank ryan]

The Dime was a Social Democrat before is was cool to be a Social Democrat.

Indeed. We helped us enter the war to defeats Nazis. Republicans at that time were intent to not allow that to happen

[Moliere]

Indeed. We helped us enter the war to defeats Nazis. Republicans at that time were intent to not allow that to happen

This is not a full explanation of the political environment at the time. The majority of Americans didn’t want to enter the war. FDR was running for a third term (breaking social norms) and made a promise that the men wouldn’t be sent off to any foreign wars. Isolationism was stronger among the Republicans, but the fact that FDR ran on a platform of not entering the war is telling of the position of most Americans. After Dec 7, 1941, isolationism vanished and everyone pretty much was good with going to war.

[Jeff Lebowski]

This is not a full explanation of the political environment at the time. The majority of Americans didn’t want to enter the war. FDR was running for a third term (breaking social norms) and made a promise that the men wouldn’t be sent off to any foreign wars. Isolationism was stronger among the Republicans, but the fact that FDR ran on a platform of not entering the war is telling of the position of most Americans. After Dec 7, 1941, isolationism vanished and everyone pretty much was good with going to war.

I am not sure I fully agree with this characterization. He realized that isolationism was wrong early on and lobbied long and hard that we should be engaged and support the allies. He initiated the "lend-lease" program where we became the industrial machine supplying the allies with war material. The German U-boats sank a ton of our merchant ships before we ever "officially" entered the war. So he was openly against isolationism long before Pearl Harbor.

[Moliere]

I am not sure I fully agree with this characterization. He realized that isolationism was wrong early on and lobbied long and hard that we should be engaged and support the allies. He initiated the "lend-lease" program where we became the industrial machine supplying the allies with war material. The German U-boats sank a ton of our merchant ships before we ever "officially" entered the war. So he was openly against isolationism long before Pearl Harbor.

You might be messing up your dates and I was probably too hard on FDR. Very few ships were sunk prior to Dec 1941. I just asked google and it says five ships were sunk by u-boats prior to Pearl Harbor. The majority of lend-lease was done in 1942-1943 prior to the US really getting into the European/African fronts. Americans had prepared for war by ramping up production of war goods and instituting a draft, but the real work happened after 1941. Democrats and FDR were clearly more favorable to cash/carry and lend/lease but a lot of Republicans were also fine providing goods with some strings attached. FDR privately supported the war effort but he'd never get the political clout to enter the war without a Pearl Harbor type attack. Even Democrats didn't support entering the war with boots on the ground until Pearl Harbor. After Pearl Harbor, pretty much every American was for entering the war.

I pushed back on frank's post because it insinuates that Republican's were sympathetic to fascist ideologies during WW2. Nothing is further from the truth. Republicans were mostly isolationists that didn't want their sons going to die for a regional conflict in Europe. As France fell, Germany tried to invade the UK, Germany invaded Russia, Japan invaded the South Pacific and Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, everyone of these pulled Americans closer and closer to supporting entering the war.

[frank ryan]

I am not sure I fully agree with this characterization. He realized that isolationism was wrong early on and lobbied long and hard that we should be engaged and support the allies. He initiated the "lend-lease" program where we became the industrial machine supplying the allies with war material. The German U-boats sank a ton of our merchant ships before we ever "officially" entered the war. So he was openly against isolationism long before Pearl Harbor.

He had to negotiate entering the war with care. Sure, he didn't jump to it when Poland was invaded, but he did a pretty good, and those the other side of the aisle were very disinclined. It was tricky for him to make the lend lease program work.

FWIW, I miss the threads where you and others would talk about what you've learned from the biographies and historical books you've read.

[frank ryan]

You might be messing up your dates and I was probably too hard on FDR. Very few ships were sunk prior to Dec 1941. I just asked google and it says five ships were sunk by u-boats prior to Pearl Harbor. The majority of lend-lease was done in 1942-1943 prior to the US really getting into the European/African fronts. Americans had prepared for war by ramping up production of war goods and instituting a draft, but the real work happened after 1941. Democrats and FDR were clearly more favorable to cash/carry and lend/lease but a lot of Republicans were also fine providing goods with some strings attached. FDR privately supported the war effort but he'd never get the political clout to enter the war without a Pearl Harbor type attack. Even Democrats didn't support entering the war with boots on the ground until Pearl Harbor. After Pearl Harbor, pretty much every American was for entering the war.

I pushed back on frank's post because it insinuates that Republican's were sympathetic to fascist ideologies during WW2. Nothing is further from the truth. Republicans were mostly isolationists that didn't want their sons going to die for a regional conflict in Europe. As France fell, Germany tried to invade the UK, Germany invaded Russia, Japan invaded the South Pacific and Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, everyone of these pulled Americans closer and closer to supporting entering the war.

Moli, I didn't say that Republicans were Nazi-sympathizers. You attributed things to me that I didn't say or infer.

Yeah I think some republicans had sympathies toward the fascists, but the MAJORITY of republicans were not. They were stridently isolationist. And there were some democrats who were isolationists.

FDR navigated a difficult political environment.

[Bo Diddley]

Something I saw at the WW2 museum in New Orleans on my first visit was his typed speech with hand written edits after the Pearl Harbor attack. Where it originally said "a date which will live in world history", he crossed out world history and changed it to infamy.

It must have been on loan because I haven't seen it there since. The Google says its permanent home is the FDR Presidential Library. I might have to start visiting some of these libraries.

[Jeff Lebowski]

You might be messing up your dates and I was probably too hard on FDR. Very few ships were sunk prior to Dec 1941. I just asked google and it says five ships were sunk by u-boats prior to Pearl Harbor. The majority of lend-lease was done in 1942-1943 prior to the US really getting into the European/African fronts. Americans had prepared for war by ramping up production of war goods and instituting a draft, but the real work happened after 1941. Democrats and FDR were clearly more favorable to cash/carry and lend/lease but a lot of Republicans were also fine providing goods with some strings attached. FDR privately supported the war effort but he'd never get the political clout to enter the war without a Pearl Harbor type attack. Even Democrats didn't support entering the war with boots on the ground until Pearl Harbor. After Pearl Harbor, pretty much every American was for entering the war.

I pushed back on frank's post because it insinuates that Republican's were sympathetic to fascist ideologies during WW2. Nothing is further from the truth. Republicans were mostly isolationists that didn't want their sons going to die for a regional conflict in Europe. As France fell, Germany tried to invade the UK, Germany invaded Russia, Japan invaded the South Pacific and Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, everyone of these pulled Americans closer and closer to supporting entering the war.

The "Cash and Carry" (pre-cursor to lend-lease) started in 1939. The Lend-Lease act passed in March 1941. Hitler declared war on the US the day after Pearl Harbor (December 1941) so we were all-in on both fronts after that.

Here is a nice summary. You can see that FDR was doing everything he could to support the allies well before Pearl Harbor.

https://www.fdrlibrary.org/lend-lease

[Moliere]

The "Cash and Carry" (pre-cursor to lend-lease) started in 1939. The Lend-Lease act passed in March 1941. Hitler declared war on the US the day after Pearl Harbor (December 1941) so we were all-in on both fronts after that.

Here is a nice summary. You can see that FDR was doing everything he could to support the allies well before Pearl Harbor.

https://www.fdrlibrary.org/lend-lease

Agreed on him doing what he could. He didn't have the support of the Americans though to put boots on the ground and I doubt he wanted to do that until Pearl Harbor. I don't think he was trying to get us into the war but he was trying to support the Allies however possible while avoiding being directly in the war.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Agreed on him doing what he could. He didn't have the support of the Americans though to put boots on the ground and I doubt he wanted to do that until Pearl Harbor. I don't think he was trying to get us into the war but he was trying to support the Allies however possible while avoiding being directly in the war.

According to the conspiracy, theorists, FDR knew all about the Japanese plans to attack Pearl Harbor, but deliberately kept a lid on it so that the US would be enraged and ready to go into the war like he wanted all along. This is actually a fairly common theory in Japan.

[Moliere]

According to the conspiracy, theorists, FDR knew all about the Japanese plans to attack Pearl Harbor, but deliberately kept a lid on it so that the US would be enraged and ready to go into the war like he wanted all along. This is actually a fairly common theory in Japan.

Ha, that’s crazy and funny. I can see that having legs given that the aircraft carriers were at sea so he just let the battleships get hit…but the theory overall defies logic.

I actually wonder if the US would have joined the war effort without Pearl Harbor happening. It’s impossible to know but I think they’d eventually join if/when Russia advanced into Germany as a way to block communism from taking over.

[tooblue]

A government run grocery store is communism, but "freedom fuel" gas stations are ...

White House launches 25 Freedom Fuel gas stations in this region

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...s/90838506007/

[Northwestcoug]

FDR did something right. How can you explain making my grandparents reliable democratic voters for life? (which caused all their children I knew about to swing republican...)

[Moliere]

A government run grocery store is communism, but "freedom fuel" gas stations are ...

White House launches 25 Freedom Fuel gas stations in this region

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...s/90838506007/

Ha, it’s well established that Trump is not a conservative nor is he a champion of free markets. He’sa populist that it’s corrupt and is only looking for his own self gain. Oh and he’s an idiot.