A Funny Thing Happened on the Way To Jerusalem: Gaza/Israel conflict

[Non Sequitur]

that your reading comprehension is handicapped by your bias is a problem. any mention of the living conditions in gaza, israel's historical security efforts in gaza (which, as it turned out, were completely justified), etc. in the same context as the facially terroristic action by hamas is a false equivalence and an attempt to justify the unjustifiable (or what normal people thought was unjustifiable until radical islam and the american political left became the strange bedfellows they are today). destroying gaza is not a product of an israeli intention to destroy gaza: it is a product of hamas colocating military targets in areas of civilian concentration specifically because its goal is to maximize the collateral damage of military action. all this paternalization on behalf of palestinians, who not only elected hamas to govern but continue to overwhelmingly support its ideology and actions

this handwringing is tiresome. you either support israel's right to self defense or you support terrorism.

That is such utter binary nonsense. Nobody has said or would say that Israel does not have the right to defend itself. Of course it does. The issue is where does defense start and where does it end. If someone threatens my life or the life of anyone in my family, I will put a gun to that person's head and pull the trigger, quick as a bunny, and I won't hesitate. What I won't do is then go to that person's house, kill his family and burn his house down.

[old_gregg]

That is such utter binary nonsense. Nobody has said or would say that Israel does not have the right to defend itself. Of course it does. The issue is where does defense start and where does it end. If someone threatens my life or the life of anyone in my family, I will put a gun to that person's head and pull the trigger, quick as a bunny, and I won't hesitate. What I won't do is then go to that person's house, kill his family and burn his house down.

speaking of utter binary nonsense. it is nice of you to have the conscience on behalf of the palestinian people that neither they nor their elected leadership have.

[Omaha 680]

Guys, Hamas released a pre-recorded statement they had instructed their fighters to avoid targeting civilians and only to target military infrastructure/personnel. This is all just a big misunderstanding.

[Jeff Lebowski]

That is such utter binary nonsense. Nobody has said or would say that Israel does not have the right to defend itself. Of course it does. The issue is where does defense start and where does it end. If someone threatens my life or the life of anyone in my family, I will put a gun to that person's head and pull the trigger, quick as a bunny, and I won't hesitate. What I won't do is then go to that person's house, kill his family and burn his house down.

What if he is picking off your family members one by one and is standing behind his family while he is shooting?

[Jeff Lebowski]

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[YOhio]

[Northwestcoug]

Some harrowing details of the Hamas attack. It sounds like there was a either a massive intelligence failure by IDF or spy infiltration by Hamas.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/13/w...mid=tw-nytimes

[fusnik]

This is a wet dream for him, he can tell people to openly kill Muslims and their children and the good folks here will say, well what do you want us to do about the kids, their parents voted for Hamas!

[YOhio]

This is a wet dream for him, he can tell people to openly kill Muslims and their children and the good folks here will say, well what do you want us to do about the kids, their parents voted for Hamas!

I didn’t get that from his speech.

[Non Sequitur]

What if he is picking off your family members one by one and is standing behind his family while he is shooting?

I don't see what that has to do with my point. I know that the actions of Hamas are unconscionable. I have never disputed that.

[Omaha 680]

I didn’t get that from his speech.

That's because he didn't say anything like that. This thread has a growing strawman overpopulation problem.

[frank ryan]

Some harrowing details of the Hamas attack. It sounds like there was a either a massive intelligence failure by IDF or spy infiltration by Hamas.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/13/w...mid=tw-nytimes

I remember when Trump wisely shared that intel on ISIS Israel provided to the noble Russians.

There been a cluster of chaotic events unfolding across the globe that don't seem to go the West's way. The string on coups in Africa, unrest in the Balkans, the conflict between Azerbaijan and Armenia.

I have to think Iran has had help from their close ally, who they have been arming.

[USUC]

I remember when Trump wisely shared that intel on ISIS Israel provided to the noble Russians.

There been a cluster of chaotic events unfolding across the globe that don't seem to go the West's way. The string on coups in Africa, unrest in the Balkans, the conflict between Azerbaijan and Armenia.

I have to think Iran has had help from their close ally, who they have been arming.

I don't think there has been any proof that Trump's handling of classified information comprised Israel's security. But I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities. My priors kind of want me to beleive this was a vast conspiracy by Russia and Iran to engage the US into diluting what it can give to Ukraine by now dividing it between Israel and Ukraine. But things are rarely that straightforward.

Trump and his "movement" have certainly hurt the stability of the western world, but not as much as the abdication of most every other country in living up to their obligation. They have chipped in to help Ukraine but not as much as they should have been able to provide. Especially European allies. And I don't see much in the way of these allies changing course because they are also dealing with the same forces in society that brought Trump to power here.

[Northwestcoug]

Not too jazzed about becoming the hamas shill here, but the decapitated babies story may be problematic, according to a reporter who initially reported it:

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there were still atrocities aplenty, just maybe not end-of-BOM level.

[frank ryan]

I don't think there has been any proof that Trump's handling of classified information comprised Israel's security. But I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities. My priors kind of want me to beleive this was a vast conspiracy by Russia and Iran to engage the US into diluting what it can give to Ukraine by now dividing it between Israel and Ukraine. But things are rarely that straightforward.

Trump and his "movement" have certainly hurt the stability of the western world, but not as much as the abdication of most every other country in living up to their obligation. They have chipped in to help Ukraine but not as much as they should have been able to provide. Especially European allies. And I don't see much in the way of these allies changing course because they are also dealing with the same forces in society that brought Trump to power here.

It's a conspiratorial take, but one that's informed by geopolitics.

Our allies who vary from incredibly supportive to Pro-Russian (Hungary) are not a uniform bunch. However, none of them have tried to wreck NATO like Trump has.

Trump has gutted American soft power and intelligence capabilities. He is a nightmare. Don't discount the potential damage. He shared nuclear sub secrets with rando foreigners at Mar a Lago.